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Author | Topic: Creation | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
Non sequitur.
ringo writes:
You have a lot of faith don' you. The Bible is not true. We know that.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
Moses didn't write Genesis.
It seems to me that the man writing about the events of Genesis chapter 1 was above some events looking on what was taking place and at other times standing on the water looking up and eventually on the ground looking up and out He spent 80 days and nights in the mount with God in which God could have showed him the events as they took place.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
I did - the word "firmament". According to Wikipedia:
Could you point out the scriptures that support such an assertion as they thought of it as "a solid dome over the earth"?quote: ICANT writes:
Wikipedia again:
I do find where those who rendered raki'a by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body. That means it came from the Latin Vulgate which did not exist until the 4th century AD and not from the Hebrew text.quote:
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
Plants growing on the third day (Geneis 1:11-13) before the sun was created (Genesis 1:14-19).
ringo writes:
Produce the evidence to support your assertion. We don't have to go beyond page 1 of the Bible to find mistakes.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
That isn't what it says.
Since the Universe existed complete at the end of verse 1....
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
And neither are you.
First thing is that Wikipedia is not an authority on Biblical Hebrew. ICANT writes:
It says that it came from the Septuagint, which is the closest thing to the "original" Hebrew text that we have.
Never the less it does tell you where the domed earth belief came from. It states plainly that it came from the Latin Vulgate which is not the Hebrew text. ICANT writes:
You're thinking backwards. You're projecting the modern concept of "space" backwards onto the word "heaven".
I like Gods definition of raki'a better than that of any man or woman.
quote: ICANT writes:
Yes, the stars were seen as lamps attached to the firmament (ceiling). There's no reason to think there was any appreciable thickness to the firmament.
So God called the expanse which is one of the definitions of raki'a, heaven which is the sky, even to where the stars are and including them.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
The idea that Genesis was written by Moses is just a tradition.
ringo writes:
And you know that because________________ Moses didn't write Genesis.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
Any goober can get a degree. What you post on EvC suggests that you don't know what you're talking about. You don't even seem to understand the difference in English between all of the water being in one place and all of the land being in one place.
My Bible Language degrees and further studies would disagree with you. ICANT writes:
Which indicates that the Bible is wrong about the sky being "firm". You can jump through hoops to convince yourself that the Bible authors "must have known" but you'll have trouble dragging other people through the hoops with you.
But the nearest stars to Earth are in the Alpha Centauri triple-star system, about 4.37 light years away. The star Deneb is the farthest star that can be easily seen with the naked eye. It is thought to be between 1,400 and 3,000 light years from Earth. So if those are attached to the ceiling as the ancient Greeks believed they are a long way from the earth and therefore a roof over planet earth is nonsense.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
Context. Genesis 1:2 says:
ringo writes:
On what authority do you make that assertion? Since the Universe existed complete at the end of verse 1....
ICANT writes: That isn't what it says. quote:If the creation was not complete in verse 2, how could it be "completed" in verse 1?
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
Your reference from Isaiah doesn't support your claim that the creation was complete in Genesis 1:1. It's just a general reference to the whole creation.
It does seem like it was in a mess at this particular time but it was not created in that condition in Genesis 1:1.
quote: ICANT writes:
Again, Jeremiah was not distinguishing between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
Jeremiah saw the earth in the condition it is described as being in Genesis 1:1.
quote: ICANT writes:
He wasn't talking about a time in earth's history - i.e. he wasn't talking about Genesis at all. Look at Jeremiah 4;27-29:
There is no other time in earth's history that would fit Jeremiah's description as there were humans, animals and birds after the flood of Noah.quote:He was talking about a future time when Israel would be destroyed if it didn't obey God.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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ICANT writes:
Verse one says it was created and verse 2 says it was without form. Thus, it was not complete in verse 1 because the form was yet to be determined.
Verse 2 does not say it was created without form. It does say 'now the earth existed' without form and void. ICANT writes:
As I said, Jeremiah 4:28-29 says that it in the future the city would be attacked by horsemen and bowmen. Jeremiah was a prophet, after all, not a historian.
Now if Jeremiah was not talking about the condition of the earth in Genesis 1:2, when was the earth in that condition that he could observe? ICANT writes:
There is no stop sign.
But that is what you did when you went through the stop sign at the end of verse 26.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
A parashah is similar to a paragraph break. It can be used to indicate the end of one story and the start of another but sometimes it's just a dramatic pause.
The Hebrew Bible was not divided into chapters and verses until 1571. Prior to that and from the Sinai there were parshiyos. which was a space in the text which was stop signs.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
You're missing the point. The point is that you've given no reason to conclude that the space indicates a change in point of view. It can but it doesn't have to. Jeremiah is clearly telling one story about one event, in the future.
The spaces in the picture of the Dead Sea Scrolls was not invented by the Masoretes, as it was text that had no vowels, accents, or punctuation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes:
You have it backwards. The messenger (you) has no credibility because his messages have been discredited so often in the past. You're like the boy who cried, "Wolf!" Otherwise they would try to discredit the message rather than the messenger. It's unfortunate, because if there ever is a wolf - i.e if you ever do say anything that's true - we're unlikely to believe it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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ICANT writes:
How does one conclude that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God?
Naturally he would disagree as he does not believe the Bible is the inerrant and infallible Word of God.
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