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Author Topic:   Mere Christianity
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 10 of 22 (866938)
11-17-2019 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
11-17-2019 3:28 PM


Re: What Humans Must Change: (Lewis The Honest Apologist)
Phat writes:
That is ringos hangup. He insists on keeping his ability to judge God.
How do you decide which god is the right one?

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 11-17-2019 3:28 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 11-17-2019 3:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 12 of 22 (866940)
11-17-2019 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
11-17-2019 3:42 PM


Re: What Humans Must Change: (Lewis The Honest Apologist)
Phat writes:
Only the real One can change you. The rest are just imitators---they have no ability to change anything...
I wasn't asking how you do it. I was asking why you get to do it and then call it a "hangup" when I do the same thing.
Phat writes:
The imitators do not have the power to give you joy and peace of mind.
I don't see you or Faith as being filled with joy and peace of mind.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 11-17-2019 3:42 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 11-17-2019 4:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 14 of 22 (866951)
11-17-2019 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
11-17-2019 4:35 PM


Re: What Humans Must Change: (Lewis The Honest Apologist)
Phat writes:
I don't think humans can do it by themselves. You and perhaps jar disagree, pointing out that only humans can and must do it.
I have told you many times, I don't claim that humans "can" do it by themselves. I'm saying that humans are the only ones who are doing it. You can pretend that God is doing it through them but that isn't honest. Fundamentalist Christian theology is built on the idea that God will fix everything "some day", which is a tacit admission that He isn't doing it now.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 11-17-2019 4:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 11-17-2019 6:41 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 16 of 22 (866977)
11-18-2019 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
11-17-2019 6:41 PM


Re: What Humans Must Change: (Lewis The Honest Apologist)
Phat writes:
... I have said before, objective evidence is not possible when it comes to validation of belief, and this fact in no way makes a belief claim "dishonest."
But objective evidence can invalidate a belief. When somebody feeds the hungry, etc., you can see who is doing it. That's objective evidence. If you pretend that "God made him do it", that's ignoring the objective evidence. That's dishonest.
Phat writes:
I have had several incidents where someone who never calls me called on a day that I needed something which they then provided, be it a ride, or a word of knowledge regarding a specific situation, or even money.
And how many incidents have you had when you needed one of those things and didn't get it?
Phat writes:
This is not being dishonest. I have seen enough to convince me.
The easiest person to convince is yourself. Fooling yourself is as dishonest as fooling anybody else.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 11-17-2019 6:41 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 11-18-2019 11:03 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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