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Author Topic:   Do you care what happens next?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 68 (777391)
01-30-2016 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Percy
01-29-2016 11:03 AM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Do I care what happens next? Immensely.
But in the last year or so my eagerness and anticipation of the future has been affected by recent world events, adding fears that weren't there before. Though there were hints, the years leading up to World War II provided no indications of the depth and magnitude of the upcoming tragedy. Our present contains even stronger hints of upcoming troubles, and there seem few indications of the world shifting to a more positive course. One very troubling parallel is that as Jews tried to flee the growing Nazi threat doors slammed around the world, the same as today for Middle Eastern refugees.
Part of me is wrestling with the notion that the violence we are seeing is nothing new and, in a lot of ways, it's even less frequent than it has ever been historically. But there is a caveat, and that caveat lies with technology. If a group like ISIS were to get ahold of a nuclear device, it's game over. They would absolutely detonate it because they live under the delusion that they have 72 virgins waiting for them in Paradise.
The recent revelations between NATO and what they would call the Axis of Evil is ramping up. I'm not sure we can avoid the next World War. It's a terrible thought only because its possibility seems so plausible and almost inevitable.
Philosophically one could say that because we care may be evidence of something beyond ourselves. On the other hand, scientifically we could look at the progression of mammals. The higher the level of intelligence, the more likely they are to express something reminiscent of love, even if primitive by human standards.
I guess being human is paradoxically both a blessing and a curse.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 01-29-2016 11:03 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 01-30-2016 7:17 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 62 of 68 (777393)
01-30-2016 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Hyroglyphx
01-30-2016 2:36 AM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Hyroglyphx writes:
Part of me is wrestling with the notion that the violence we are seeing is nothing new and, in a lot of ways, it's even less frequent than it has ever been historically.
You may be right. Sometime within the past few years a study found that violent death has been declining steadily over the past some thousand years...oh, wait, I found the source, a Steven Pinker TED talk. I didn't know that was the source. I heard about the study when I tuned in to the end of a radio interview with someone whose name I didn't catch, but it must have been Pinker. Here's a version of his talk from YouTube:
Pinker says we may be living in the most peaceful time in human history.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-30-2016 2:36 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-01-2016 3:58 AM Percy has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 63 of 68 (777420)
01-30-2016 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by xongsmith
01-29-2016 4:45 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
xongsmith writes:
Remember that scene in Dances With Wolves?
Like it was yesterday.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by xongsmith, posted 01-29-2016 4:45 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 64 of 68 (777421)
01-30-2016 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Tangle
01-28-2016 6:46 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Tangle writes:
Omni writes:
I agree we can live fulfilling lives regardless.
OK so we can put that argument aside
I never put it forward, and it isn't mine. Do what you like with it.
I have more to say, but not via my tablet's touchscreen keyboard. Back home Sun. night.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Tangle, posted 01-28-2016 6:46 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 68 (777461)
02-01-2016 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Percy
01-30-2016 7:17 AM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Pinker says we may be living in the most peaceful time in human history.
I think Mean World Syndrome may be to blame for the perception that the world is "going to hell in a hand-basket."
quote:
Mean world syndrome is a term coined by George Gerbner to describe a phenomenon whereby violence-related content of mass media makes viewers believe that the world is more dangerous than it actually is. Mean world syndrome is one of the main conclusions of cultivation theory.
With the increase of technology we are covering atrocities with greater ease globally. And since death and carnage is considered entertainment, the media has no problem pumping it through the television 24/7 to boost ratings. So there is this illusion that "things are getting worse," and "back in my day we didn't see these kinds of things." The reality is, of course, statistically violence isn't increasing but rather our ability to document it is.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 01-30-2016 7:17 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Percy, posted 02-01-2016 9:39 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 66 of 68 (777465)
02-01-2016 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Hyroglyphx
02-01-2016 3:58 AM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Hyroglyphx writes:
With the increase of technology we are covering atrocities with greater ease globally. And since death and carnage is considered entertainment, the media has no problem pumping it through the television 24/7 to boost ratings. So there is this illusion that "things are getting worse," and "back in my day we didn't see these kinds of things." The reality is, of course, statistically violence isn't increasing but rather our ability to document it is.
I began factoring that into the equation decades ago. If I were to methodically go over a map and list all the countries that I would have felt safe visiting 30 years that I would not feel safe visiting today, and vice versa, I think it would show far more countries moving into the "not safe" category. Here's a list off the top of my head:
CountrySafe 30 Years AgoSafe Today
Afghanistan
Bangladesh
EgyptX
GreeceX
IndiaXX
IsraelX
Libya
JordanX?
LebanonX
Iran
IraqX
NigeriaX
OmanXX
PakistanX
MyanmarX
Saudi ArabiaXX
SyriaX
TunisiaX
TurkeyXX
United Arab EmmiratesXX
YemenX
This list is just a number of countries from the Middle East where most of the unrest is. There are naturally a large number of countries that were safe to visit then and now, but my fears stem from the shrinking list of safe countries to visit.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-01-2016 3:58 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 67 of 68 (777466)
02-01-2016 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by AZPaul3
01-29-2016 11:51 AM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
AZPaul3 writes:
Perspective. Frame of reference.
Exactly.
And, of course, what matters to me most is my frame of reference (and any others I can contemplate given the chance).
To me, the ultimate test is in the far future. 150 million years from now, other than a few curious trinkets lying in the ground, our individual lives along with the extinction of our species, will matter next to nothing.
So, yeah, except as made by us individually where it can matter very dearly, none of this really matters at all.
What?
Why is that the "ultimate test"... and even if it is, why does it imply that "none of this really matters at all"?
Like you said... perspective and frame of reference.
I can certainly understand how none of this really matters at all --- according to 150 million years from now.
But, why choose that frame of reference (or any other) as the "ultimate test"?
Why, when we're talking about a subjective thing, do you think a time-line makes a difference?
It seems like you're trying to force some sort of "objectivity" on a subject that is, fundamentally, subjective.
I mean, you're allowed to do whatever you want
I'm just saying that I don't understand this line of reasoning. "Objective" does not equal "better" or "more profound" or anything like that. In fact, for subjective matters, it actually means "lesser" and "no relevancy at all."
It's a subjective thing to feel happy during a wedding.
It's an objective thing that weddings happen.
Which is "better" or "more profound"?
That wedding happen? Or that people feel happy?
If you think that weddings happening is more important, then I'll simply have to disagree, and you likely won't agree with the following, which are my thoughts on the matter:
I would say that the "ultimate test" for such a subjective concept is the obvious, simple answer: how do you feel?
I think it should come to no surprise that I, myself, don't care too much about 150 million years from now. After all, I'm here, I'm now, and I can't affect such a thing or know too much about it.
Therefore, to me, the "ultimate test" is very much right here in the present. Which raises this stakes of "caring" and how much things "really matter."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by AZPaul3, posted 01-29-2016 11:51 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 68 of 68 (777468)
02-01-2016 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Adequate
01-29-2016 3:25 PM


Dont chastise me for meat when you wear leather
She was right,.....
Say what?!
and you should have considered becoming a vegan if only for her emerald-green eyes,
Yes this is true but eventually I would of been caught in a Texas Road House I fear.
rather than breaking up with her 'cos of her imaginary hypocrisy.
How is being a self professed vegan wearing leather not a exercise in hypocrisy?
Why does someone get to call me out on promoting animal cruelty for eating a steak but I do not get to reciprocate for them wearing leather?
Just because someone ate a cow, that does not make it somehow "ok" to wear its hide. If one is operating under the premise that buying and using animal products contributes to the cruelty of animals.
Now I do realize there are strict vegetarians that do not eat meat and do so for strictly dietary reasons. But this was not the case.
you should have shut the fuck up.
I know, me and my big mouth I spent that Christmas wishing I had done so.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-29-2016 3:25 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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