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Author | Topic: Did Jesus teach reincarnation? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Phat writes: You do not know that my belief is not at least partially real. I know what you tell us your belief is.
You will only argue that it is real to me That's just a truism.
and that the esteemed default position of the new ruling discipline of "Science" decrees that no belief will ever be real without evidence. How many times over how many years? If there is evidence, it's not a belief, it's a fact.
This is the problem with your position, though. In regard to a supernatural God, evidence will never be objectively available unless God Himself chose to reveal it. That is not a problem with my position. That's a problem with his postion.
You say I need to start doubting my need for the "truth" I do not say that, I say that you need to examine why you feel the need for this so called truth, in the light of the tangible and inescapable evidence that others have your same conviction but for a different god. Please explain how that is possible.
but I say that your very doubt pushed you into the lack of belief you have now. Crap, I have no doubt and I don't lack belief. Religious belief is just irrelevant to me, just like fairy dust and unicorn droppings an absurdity.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 661 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
I think it depends more on evidence. Logic is just a sieve that we run the evidence through.
Critical thinking is limited by logic. Juvenissun writes:
The problem with that idea is that the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is. There ARE truth beyond logic."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Base12 Junior Member (Idle past 1573 days) Posts: 22 Joined:
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Juvenissun writes:
I've been researching and publishing these concepts since the mid 2000's. How much time you spent to put all these pieces together? Or you just copy other's idea? Many talented folks have contributed, which is why I pass this on to others freely. Nothing is copyrighted and I don't take credit for any of it. This is not about me. Who I am matters not. At the end of the day it's God who gets all of the credit. Amen. Edited by Base12, : No reason given.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1557 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
The problem with that idea is that the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is. It does not matter. Scientists rarely agree on new things or new feature. But they know it is something new.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1557 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
I've been researching and publishing these concepts since the mid 2000's. Many talented folks have contributed, which is why I pass this on to others freely. Nothing is copyrighted and I don't take credit for any of it. This is not about me. Who I am matters not. At the end of the day it's God who gets all of the credit. Do you think what we (who argued against you) know is wrong? Or what you know is in addition to what we know?
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ringo Member (Idle past 661 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
That's a good sign. They test a lot of possibilities before drawing conclusions. Believers in ultimate "truth" do not. Scientists rarely agree on new things or new feature. And there's more good news: scientists eventually come to a consensus. Believers just cling to their own versions of "the truth"."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Base12 Junior Member (Idle past 1573 days) Posts: 22 Joined: |
Juvenissun writes: Do you think what we (who argued against you) know is wrong? Or what you know is in addition to what we know? Whether someone is right or wrong is ultimately up to God to decide. Having said that, if someone interprets a verse in contradiction to the rest of the Bible, I'm going to challenge that interpretation by posting proof in the form of other verses. If the other person has no verses to back up their claim, then the debate is over. In other words, simply saying "you're wrong" isn't proof of being correct. If that is all they have then I see no point in any further discussion. As far as what others have posted in this thread, I've yet to see any verses challenging or contradicting my claims.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1557 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
As far as what others have posted in this thread, I've yet to see any verses challenging or contradicting my claims. Among other things, I oppose your use of the word "reincarnation". I think you can not tell "reincarnation" from "incarnation". All examples you gave can easily be interpreted as incarnation, rather than re.... .
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1557 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
The problem with that idea is that the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is. Yes, they do can. Do you know what it is? Of course you do.
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ringo Member (Idle past 661 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
They sure as hell do NOT. Christians don't believe in the same "truth" as Buddhists. Catholics don't even believe the same "truth" as Protestants and fundamentalists don't believe the same "truth" as Anglicans.
ringo writes:
Yes, they do can ... the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is. Juvenissun writes:
Tell us. Do you know what it is? Of course you do."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo writes: Agreed. Were I to summarize the important truth that *should* be global, I would say that it is Jesus Christ. Literal Bibles, talking snakes, and karmic dualistic and/or humanistic concepts are irrelevant in light of the messenger. You may claim that if everyone simply followed the message it would work just as well and maybe better. The question is whether we can do it without any help from God. Christians don't believe in the same "truth" as Buddhists. Catholics don't even believe the same "truth" as Protestants and fundamentalists don't believe the same "truth" as Anglicans."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 1557 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
All religious people believe in one thing: God exists.
Plus another one: There is life after this life. Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 661 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And the messenger is irrelevant in light of the message. You know that. You don't throw your mail away and keep the envelopes.
Literal Bibles, talking snakes, and karmic dualistic and/or humanistic concepts are irrelevant in light of the messenger. Phat writes:
The answer is yes. The question is whether we can do it without any help from God. Your perverted idea of God is a stumbling-block."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 661 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
They believe in many different gods. There is certainly not a universal truth.
All religious people believe in one thing: God exists. Juvenissun writes:
Again, there are many different views of the afterlife. Plus another one: There is life after this life. You might as well claim that the best flavor of ice cream is a universal truth, even though everybody has a different favorite."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo writes: I beg your pardon? How is my idea of God in any way perverted? Your perverted idea of God is a stumbling-block."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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