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Author Topic:   The Bundys and the Armed Occupation of a National Wildlife Refuge
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 76 of 254 (776899)
01-22-2016 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Tanypteryx
01-21-2016 6:18 PM


Re: Sign the Petition?
Hope the signatures keep building up.
The FBI looks totally incompetent today when they had the perfect opportunity to take Bundy into custody. FBI and Oregon standoff leaders begin negotiations to end refuge occupation
Well it sounds like they are giving these insurrectionists enough rope to incriminate them for multiple crimes, which they seem willing to volunteer admission to committing.
Destruction of national heritage artifacts can apparently now be added to the list of confirmed acts.
But we'll have to see how the negotiations go.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 77 of 254 (776910)
01-22-2016 1:26 PM


More background Information on the Hammonds
Note that Fish and Wildlife Service had a pretty good working relationship with 30 other ranchers near the refuge.
Oregon ranchers who sparked standoff threatened to wrap official’s son in barbed wire and drown him

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 727 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 78 of 254 (776957)
01-23-2016 3:27 PM


Apparent News blackout
Has anyone noticed that there is pretty much no news on the occupation?
The last three articles were
1) the children of one of the protesters were taken by armed men from their grandparents
2) The governor asked for federal help
3) several days later, the governor complained about federal action, but said the feds asked her to keep her public comments to a miniumn.

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 254 (776982)
01-24-2016 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by ramoss
01-23-2016 3:27 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
Has anyone noticed that there is pretty much no news on the occupation?
There have been stories but there really is not a lot of activity. Law enforcement has not taken advantage of numerous opportunities to make arrests.
A couple days ago I read an article that put forth the idea that one reason that these buffoons have not been arrested in Burns is that there are a hundred or more armed badass nutjobs in town just hoping for a reason to have a shootout. These thugs are members of other militias and white supremacists who have been intimidating local area residents and seem to be here to be provocative. Another reason for restraint was that arresting Bundy might remove the only person who can keep things calm out at the refuge.
There have been a number of open letters from groups who support the refuge published on the web condemning the occupation and the lack of any response by the FBI or other law enforcement and cataloging how valuable the refuge and public lands are.
Two brothers started a fund that has raised more than $50,000 so far for organizations that the Bundys will hate.
This was posted on facebook this evening by a guy named Les Zaitz who has been at the refuge observing what is going on:
quote:
The scene at the Malheur refuge this afternoon was as odd as they get. A Christian family of young singers from Kansas sang hymns before a news conference started to announce a small-time NM rancher wouldn't pay the feds to graze any more. And then some fellow announced a "citizen grand jury" was investigating crimes in Harney County. He warned reporters not to breach the secrecy by asking about its proceedings or who was on it. He said to do so was a felony, he warned. I pressed him later. He sternly warned me I was about to commit a felony. So, the Constitution is revered -- but available only to a select few? This is getting stranger by the day here and I wish I could keep you up on all the madness. There's too much!
He describes himself on facebook as Investigations editor (managing producer/watchdog) at The Oregonian.
.
This link has a pretty good list of stories covering the whole crazy mess Demands by Oregon standoff leaders defy logic and law, authorities say
Some background on the criminals involved at the refuge Faces of the Malheur occupation: Meet the militants and their visitors

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(4)
Message 80 of 254 (777006)
01-24-2016 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Tanypteryx
01-24-2016 2:51 AM


Wildlife ...
Thought you would enjoy this:

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 81 of 254 (777007)
01-24-2016 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ramoss
01-23-2016 3:27 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
ramoss writes:
Has anyone noticed that there is pretty much no news on the occupation?
The only place I've heard of it at all is on EvC. Apparently in Canada a bunch of American whackos with guns isn't news.

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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 82 of 254 (777013)
01-24-2016 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ringo
01-24-2016 1:37 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
ringo writes:
Apparently in Canada a bunch of American whackos with guns isn't news.
Until the shooting starts.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 83 of 254 (777014)
01-24-2016 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Omnivorous
01-24-2016 2:23 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
Omnivorous writes:
Until the shooting starts.
It's getting to be as boring as basketball though. You can't single out any one basket/shooting. Only the overall score is worth noticing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Omnivorous, posted 01-24-2016 2:23 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 283 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 84 of 254 (777016)
01-24-2016 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by ringo
01-24-2016 2:27 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
Yeah, but it's not every day you get a barrel of flaming dildos. The Canadian media is definitely remiss if they didn't cover that.

This message is a reply to:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 85 of 254 (777017)
01-24-2016 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by ringo
01-24-2016 2:27 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
ringo writes:
It's getting to be as boring as basketball though. You can't single out any one basket/shooting. Only the overall score is worth noticing.
I thought fixation on the big payoff was just a US male thing.
I do understand the Canadian struggle with basketball, though. They don't even hit each other with sticks.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
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Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 86 of 254 (777018)
01-24-2016 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by JonF
01-24-2016 3:25 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
Yeah, but it's not every day you get a barrel of flaming dildos.
At first, I read that as a "barrel of flamingos" which isn't nearly as funny.
ABE: Wow, my 1000th post. Do I get a prize?
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by JonF, posted 01-24-2016 3:25 PM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 87 of 254 (777021)
01-24-2016 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Tanypteryx
01-24-2016 4:11 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
You get a cookie. Chocolate chip.
{::}
Congrats.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 88 of 254 (777022)
01-24-2016 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Omnivorous
01-24-2016 3:54 PM


Re: Apparent News blackout
I do understand the Canadian struggle with basketball, though. They don't even hit each other with sticks.
'ceptin' those sticks mandated by Jesus when he said "Take up Lacrosse and follow me."

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(5)
Message 89 of 254 (777038)
01-25-2016 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Tanypteryx
01-24-2016 4:11 PM


and in Maine
At first, I read that as a "barrel of flamingos" which isn't nearly as funny.
Maybe this will help

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 90 of 254 (777050)
01-25-2016 1:22 PM


It keeps getting better and better and better
Community meeting cancelled due to safety concerns. The town continues to be held ransom by armed cowards, Harney County Community Meeting Canceled Citing Public Safety
This is a good discussion of how the Bundy Bubbas are misusing the U.S. Constitution mixed with "natural law," Mormonism, and Christianity as justification for their unlawful activities. Amazingly they are supported by a few elected representatives, but they are not convincing many voters. The Natural Law of Bullies and Babies
quote:
Ryan Bundy has run twice for state office in Utah’s District 72 in 2008 (see above) and 2012. Ryan was selling the same platform he espouses at Malheur to folks in his own county and his extreme ideas came in dead last in a very conservative district near concentrations of federal land. (If your show is not even loved on your home turf, one wonders why you would bother to take it on the road?)
quote:
So back to Burns. The Burns standoff is critically important because while it is about a specific ideological conflict and how we deal with these conflicts in general, it is also about how we treat those unwilling to accept the answers offered up to them by our complex system. In this latter regard we really have to ask ourselves questions about the legitimacy of any protest and the related issues. Are the people involved truly disenfranchised by a flawed system? Have they been given legitimate avenues for resolution? Have they been heard? Are their arguments sound and justified? Or are they just spoiled brats not getting their way? In looking at Cliven, Ammon and Ryan Bundy we find that they all have been heard or allowed to participate in the system. They have been shut out of nothing. Cliven, for instance, was given a chance at responsible cattle grazing, has certainly burnt up court time, and even had legislation offered up to solve his "situation." He failed at the first two and the last was declared un-constitutional.
Now this is scary Bundyland Security Chief Ryan Payne: It’s Legal To Kill A Cop Who’s Unlawfully Trying to Arrest You
quote:
More specifically, he came to believe that slavery never really existed in the United States and that African Americans in the antebellum South didn’t view themselves as slaves. He came to believe in an effort by some Jews to control the world. He came to believe the founders of the United States intended for the states to act as sovereign countries. He came to believe taxes are a form of legal plunder. He came to believe names are spelled in all-caps on driver’s licenses because U.S. citizens are actually corporate entities. He came to believe U.S. courts are actually foreign admiralty courts. He came to believe that in most states you have the lawful authority to kill a police officer that is unlawfully trying to arrest you. He came to believe when a newborn child’s footprint is made on a birth certificate, that child is effectively entering a life of servitude to the U.S. government, which borrows money from China based on that child’s estimated lifetime earning potential.
The big ceremony of ranchers (only one showed up from NM) renouncing their grazing contracts Oregon standoff: Ranchers, including ex-con, renounce grazing permits
.
One of my friends summed it up quite well.
quote:
How long can these guys continue to insist that they are trying to help anyone other than themselves to a free lunch. To quote the old Smith Barney ads, "Most of us make money the old fashioned way, we earn it!" Your proven inability to manage your own affairs and succeed at the game of life is not sufficient reason to change the rules of a game that the rest of mastered long ago. The Constitution, the laws of the land, and the myriad of economic opportunities seem to be working okay for the vast majority of Americans. Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean the rest of us are doing it wrong. We are really sorry that your old man filled your heads with all sorts of mumbo jumbo and left you wholly unprepared to function within the framework of normal civilized society. Guess you didn't win the genetic lottery. We are sincerely sorry about that for your sake and your children's sake. Please take them home where they belong and don't poison the well for them the way Cliven did for you.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

  
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