Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 48 (9179 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,230 Year: 5,487/9,624 Month: 512/323 Week: 9/143 Day: 9/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Bundys and the Armed Occupation of a National Wildlife Refuge
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8613
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 151 of 254 (777896)
02-11-2016 2:24 PM


Occupation Over
The last of the occupiers has peacefully surrendered to FBI.
NYTimes Here

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Diomedes, posted 02-11-2016 2:38 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(9)
Message 152 of 254 (777897)
02-11-2016 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by AZPaul3
02-11-2016 2:24 PM


Re: Occupation Over

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by AZPaul3, posted 02-11-2016 2:24 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2016 12:57 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(7)
Message 153 of 254 (777934)
02-12-2016 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Diomedes
02-11-2016 2:38 PM


Re: Occupation Over
With only one dead (by cop suicide) and most of the offenders in jail, charged with several crimes.
They'll be occupying federal land for a while now.
So they lose their rights to carry arms, their "cause" deflates and more.
Will the government take Bundy land for failure to pay taxes and other fees? Not out of the question I would think -- there are laws allowing the seizure of property used during committing a crime ...
But this is part of a larger problem in America -- people that are "low information" and people that are "bad information" purveyors making up stuff to fill the space in their heads.
This is why education is critical for an informed population capable of making valid conclusions from objective empirical evidence, instead of being hoodwinked by the latest snake-oil salesman.
So I'm glad this was not another RubyRidge\Waco fiasco.
Well done FBI.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Diomedes, posted 02-11-2016 2:38 PM Diomedes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by NoNukes, posted 02-18-2016 7:00 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 283 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 154 of 254 (778259)
02-18-2016 4:54 PM


The occupation is over, the fun continues.
One of the occupiers is suing the gummint for literally being a tool of Satan. And much, much more. Of course no Federal judge or lawyer is empowered to hear the case. You will not believe the damages she wants!
Oregon militant accuses feds of committing ‘works of the devil'

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 155 of 254 (778270)
02-18-2016 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by RAZD
02-12-2016 12:57 PM


Re: Occupation Over
Will the government take Bundy land for failure to pay taxes and other fees? Not out of the question I would think -- there are laws allowing the seizure of property used during committing a crime
Yes there are such laws, but for the most part those laws are total crap, and I cannot find the energy to support their use on anyone. If it is necessary to seize some Bundy property to get back that million dollars worth of grazing fees, then so be it. I'm down with that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2016 12:57 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 156 of 254 (778326)
02-19-2016 9:51 AM


Papa Bundy arrested: No bail
Sorry. RAZD already announced the capture of Cliven.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 157 of 254 (778327)
02-19-2016 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by RAZD
02-11-2016 12:41 PM


Re: unintended consequences?
RAZD writes:
Oops ... Daddy Bundy busted ...
Why did Cliven's arrest take so long. Well perhaps that is just the 2nd amendment working just the way some gun nuts tell us it is supposed to work.
quote:
Out of safety concerns, local law officers allowed the gunmen and the conspirators to leave the site without facing arrest.
It took nearly took two years for authorities to finally file charges against Bundy because, prosecutors indicated, "the investigation became purely historical in nature."
"The presence of many gunmen in and near the area of Bundy Ranch, the armed checkpoints and patrols, the presence of assault weapons in the militia camps, including (by some accounts) a .50 caliber machine gun, further increased the difficulty of conducting a physical investigation of Bundy Ranch or the impoundment site," prosecutors added.
Now he has more serious charges than tax evasion.
Cliven most likely will never roam his ranch again.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by RAZD, posted 02-11-2016 12:41 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


Message 158 of 254 (788341)
07-29-2016 4:11 PM


Ryan Bundy Declares Himself An 'Idiot'
Ryan Bundy Declares Himself An 'Idiot' Not Subject To US Courts
quote:
I, ryan c, man, am an idiot of the ‘Legal Society’; and; am an idiot (layman, outsider) of the ‘Bar Association’; and; i am incompetent; and; am not required by any law to be competent, Bundy wrote in a motion filed to U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by 14174dm, posted 07-29-2016 4:25 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 161 by jar, posted 07-30-2016 9:00 AM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1224 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 159 of 254 (788342)
07-29-2016 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Tanypteryx
07-29-2016 4:11 PM


Re: Ryan Bundy Declares Himself An 'Idiot'
So if Nevada and Oregon are not part of the US then they must still belong to the Native Americans, right? They had possession before the US got the land (no comments on methods). Did any Bundy pay or otherwise compensate the Native Americans for the land they overgraze?
I love the way the sovereignty people use Interstate Highways, US dollars, the banking system, the post office, expect protection through the police and courts, etc. but don't have to live by the laws they don't like or pay taxes.
They must have been spoiled brats as kids because they are now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2016 4:11 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2016 4:48 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 254 (788343)
07-29-2016 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by 14174dm
07-29-2016 4:25 PM


Re: Ryan Bundy Declares Himself An 'Idiot'
I love the way the sovereignty people use Interstate Highways, US dollars, the banking system, the post office, expect protection through the police and courts, etc. but don't have to live by the laws they don't like or pay taxes.
They must have been spoiled brats as kids because they are now.
Well, their parents are thieves, so it's not too surprising that the kids are also.
Too bad there isn't a vaccine for stupid, but Cliven is probably an anti-vaxxer also.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by 14174dm, posted 07-29-2016 4:25 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 161 of 254 (788359)
07-30-2016 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Tanypteryx
07-29-2016 4:11 PM


Re: Ryan Bundy Declares Himself An 'Idiot'
Under our Constitution, being an idiot does not mean you cannot also be President or that you do not have to follow the rules. Being an idiot does not even exempt you from paying taxes or suffering consequences.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2016 4:11 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 254 (788379)
07-30-2016 3:12 PM


The prosecution lays out its case
As we the trial nears this is going to become an interesting story again. I hope the prosecution does not let anymore of these anti-American traitors plead to lesser charges. The evidence collected is overwhelming.
Prosecutors: Oregon standoff defendants broke into safes, stole federal documents, called refuge takeover 'another Bunkerville'
Document: Government's trial brief
Document: Government's list of trial exhibits
It will be interesting to see if this trial becomes an issue in the Presidential election.
I saw that the Republican National Platform includes the whole nutty Utah public land grab bullshit, so it is now basically endorsed by by all the Republicans in Congress and the whole bunch of nut-jobs that attended the GOP convention.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by NoNukes, posted 07-30-2016 6:02 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 163 of 254 (788385)
07-30-2016 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Tanypteryx
07-30-2016 3:12 PM


Re: The prosecution lays out its case
Some of the legal theories mentioned in the article are nothing short of bizarre.
quote:
Adverse possession is the occupation of land to which another person has title with the intention of possessing it as one's own. The Bundy brothers have argued that it was their intent to stake claim to the refuge through adverse possession.
Adverse possession allows acquiring property by sitting on the land for some amount of time without any significant action by the owner to recover the property. The time period is generally on the order of 10 years and is perhaps as long as 30 years in some states. But you cannot invoke adverse possession by taking over a property and repelling the owners attempts to recover the property by force of arms.
quote:
Ryan Bundy and Medenbach also face charges of theft of government property. Medenbach is accused of stealing a 2012 Ford truck from the refuge and driving it to the Burns Safeway on Jan. 15, where he was arrested. He's said in court that he was borrowing the truck to buy groceries.
In short, Medenbach's statement, rather than being a defense, is an admission to all of the elements needed to prove auto theft.
Edited by NoNukes, : discuss another charge

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-30-2016 3:12 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2016 1:30 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 399 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 164 of 254 (788395)
07-31-2016 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by NoNukes
07-30-2016 6:02 PM


Re: The prosecution lays out its case
No, those legal theories are mildly unusual. This is bizarre.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by NoNukes, posted 07-30-2016 6:02 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by 14174dm, posted 07-31-2016 1:06 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1224 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 165 of 254 (788421)
07-31-2016 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Dr Adequate
07-31-2016 1:30 AM


Re: The prosecution lays out its case
27. i receive mail at P.O. Box 7447, bunkerville, republic of nevada [89007] as right and not as a privilege nor benefit of contract; i am without evidence to the contrary, therefore it is so; and,
Ummm.... He RENTS a PO box which has a contract, paid for with US dollars, and willingly interacts with the US Post Office. What an ass.
28. i am (primary) citizen of Heaven... i intend to, at all times, to return to Heaven...
73. i am not in receipt of any evidence in fact that i am a 'flight risk'...
Did you just say you're a flight risk?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-31-2016 1:30 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024