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Author Topic:   The Bundys and the Armed Occupation of a National Wildlife Refuge
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 254 (776718)
01-19-2016 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Omnivorous
01-12-2016 7:55 PM


The author's stand for a patient, bloodless resolution is admirable. I hope it ends that way, too. But as she notes, this has been going on for many years--more than 20 for Cliven Bundy, without consequence for him. The armed occupation is an escalation and has already provoked increased harassment of scientists and federal employees in the area.
Patience can lead to understanding, but insulating people from the consequences of their actions too long leads to bad outcomes. Sometimes, forbearance begets nothing but license.
The initial Bundy standoff came at a time when distrust towards the government was at an all-time high. Festering is a slew of violent, disaffected "sovereign citizen" (an oxy-moronic term) anarchists who think they can do whatever they want.
They have not had much consequence, and during each standoff they are bolstered thinking about how they beat the federal government in a showdown.
The government doesn't want another Waco or Ruby Ridge, as this would only serve to validate the fears of self-described Sovereign Citizens.
So how do we ensure that they follow the law without inciting another heavy-handed war?
Difficult question to answer

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Omnivorous, posted 01-12-2016 7:55 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 01-19-2016 8:36 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 44 by Omnivorous, posted 01-19-2016 8:37 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 254 (777316)
01-29-2016 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Tanypteryx
01-28-2016 7:33 PM


Re: practice anti-domestic terrorist training
My guess is that the federal government is afraid of unwittingly martyring these people. There was such bad publicity with Ruby Ridge and Waco, the government probably is trying to avoid that at all costs because these people use cases like that to justify their current actions.
If the Feds were smart, they would surround the building and starve them out. Stop allowing them to run trips to the friggin' store! Cut off their supply and you end the struggle. Whether they come out shooting or not is on them, but as long as it is documented through video, it will be harder for them to say that the government initiated the force versus responding with force commensurate with their actions.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-28-2016 7:33 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by NoNukes, posted 01-29-2016 1:55 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 122 of 254 (777323)
01-29-2016 4:01 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by NoNukes
01-29-2016 1:55 AM


Re: practice anti-domestic terrorist training
quote:
Why can’t I get in my vehicle and drive home like I’ve done four other times since I got here?said Sean Anderson, 47, of Riggins, Idaho, who was at the refuge along with wife
Wow... That really highlights how disconnected they are from reality. I imagine a hostile takeover of a government building could land them, at a minimum, 3-5 years in a federal penitentiary.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by NoNukes, posted 01-29-2016 1:55 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by jar, posted 01-29-2016 8:03 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 125 by NoNukes, posted 01-29-2016 9:02 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 254 (777388)
01-30-2016 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by jar
01-29-2016 8:03 AM


Re: practice anti-domestic terrorist training
Yeah, they may end RICOing anyone involved.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by jar, posted 01-29-2016 8:03 AM jar has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 131 of 254 (777389)
01-30-2016 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by RAZD
01-29-2016 8:47 AM


Re: practice anti-domestic terrorist training
And because the felonies were committed with the use of guns they will now fail background checks.
Which raises the question whether they can legally posses weapons.
Nope, they forfeited that right.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by RAZD, posted 01-29-2016 8:47 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 254 (777390)
01-30-2016 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by AZPaul3
01-29-2016 9:44 PM


Re: Ironic Justice
Clearly the terrorists have won

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by AZPaul3, posted 01-29-2016 9:44 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 146 of 254 (777457)
02-01-2016 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by RAZD
01-31-2016 10:12 AM


Re: Suicide by COP
He puts his hands down and reaches into his pockets before being shot.
Nuff said.
He reached twice, and given the fact that they were known to be armed and known to be hostile is pretty much a guaranteed death sentence if you make any sudden movements like he displayed.
All kinds of Sovereign Citizen types are claiming that it was a "murder," which is, of course, a ridiculous allegation given the evidence.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2016 10:12 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 147 of 254 (777458)
02-01-2016 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by RAZD
01-31-2016 11:04 AM


Re: Where should the militias make their next stand?
They -- and the closely related "open carry" nuts -- may achieve one thing in the end ... ironically: the banning of assault/war weapons to protect people from this insanity.
That's what I've been trying to convince them of. They are an even bigger threat to gun rights than even the strictest gun control advocate.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2016 11:04 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by RAZD, posted 02-11-2016 12:41 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 254 (777459)
02-01-2016 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by AZPaul3
01-31-2016 3:34 PM


Re: Suicide by COP
On the video, there were enough cops and guns in the area for protection. Why did it take almost 10 minuets before anyone went to Finicum? I realize the other fools were still in the truck but, my god, they're cops. You shoot someone aren't you supposed to at least try to render some assistance? Or was this supposed to be a shoot-to-kill?
Yes, certainly, but not until the scene is safe. The vehicles hadn't been cleared yet of other threats and I'm willing to bet the FBI entertained the notion that the militants could have been baiting them to the vehicle which may have been rigged with explosives.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by AZPaul3, posted 01-31-2016 3:34 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 149 of 254 (777460)
02-01-2016 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Tanypteryx
01-31-2016 4:23 PM


Re: Suicide by COP
Maybe it was obvious he was dead. So far I don't think there have been any reports of how many times he was shot or where he was hit.
ABE: I have also been wondering if there were body cam videos of the shooting? Maybe those are too graphic or they are withholding them for any trials.
Possibly. But it seems obvious that they wanted that drone footage released immediately to dispel any rumors of misconduct on the part of the Feds. The images speak for themselves.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-31-2016 4:23 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied

  
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