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Author Topic:   The Christmas Wars
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 106 of 138 (774932)
12-25-2015 4:23 AM



Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 12-25-2015 3:50 PM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 107 of 138 (774956)
12-25-2015 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Tangle
12-25-2015 4:23 AM


Not entirely sure what you are trying to say, but I suppose you think that chapter of Jeremiah really does forbid Christmas trees?
If so, it's not true. That chapter is referring to the making of idols by the heathen nations by carving them out of wood and decorating them, to worship them as gods. There are other references in the Bible to the making of idols out of wood. It is a mocking of the idea that they are gods to describe them as unable to move or speak, in contrast with the living God of the Jews.
Jer 10:3-5 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Here's a Google Image page of typical carved wooden idols, which is what the Bible is referring to. And a page specifically of Canaanite gods
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Tangle, posted 12-25-2015 4:23 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-25-2015 9:08 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 112 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2015 3:37 AM Faith has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 108 of 138 (774965)
12-25-2015 5:21 PM


Xmas Spirit Found!
fMRI images comparing Xmasheads and others.
Story here.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by AZPaul3, posted 12-25-2015 7:36 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 109 of 138 (774971)
12-25-2015 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Omnivorous
12-25-2015 5:21 PM


Re: Xmas Spirit Found!
My lack of deep knowledge of fMRI has a question.
Looking at the center image for the three sets I see no read at the crown of the Christmas group, no read at the crown of the non-Christmas group yet the is a significant reading at the crown of the image that is supposed to be the "difference" between the other two groups. So, in fMRI world the difference between no reading and no reading is a reading?
Say what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Omnivorous, posted 12-25-2015 5:21 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Omnivorous, posted 12-25-2015 11:03 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 110 of 138 (774974)
12-25-2015 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
12-25-2015 3:50 PM


If so, it's not true. That chapter is referring to the making of idols by the heathen nations by carving them out of wood and decorating them, to worship them as gods. There are other references in the Bible to the making of idols out of wood. It is a mocking of the idea that they are gods to describe them as unable to move or speak, in contrast with the living God of the Jews.
So what if I have a Christmas tree but I sacrifice a goat to it? It's a bit of a gray area.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 12-25-2015 3:50 PM Faith has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 111 of 138 (774976)
12-25-2015 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by AZPaul3
12-25-2015 7:36 PM


Re: Xmas Spirit Found!
I dunno--I'm just the cut-and-paste man.
But note this:
quote:
Other limitations of the study include the fact that there could be other reasons for the brain stimulation -- maybe the holiday pictures had more red in them, or maybe there are other differences between the two participant groups that could explain the brain scan discrepancies. But, with a flippancy characteristic of the BMJ holiday issue, the authors have only one thing to say in their defense: stop harshing the holiday vibe.
"Bringing these issues up... really dampened the festive mood, they write.
"Therefore we, in the best interest of the readers of course, decided not to ruin the good Christmas cheer for everyone by letting this influence our interpretation of the study."
Maybe they're pulling our legs. Maybe you need to take another draft of Xmas spirit.
But for sure the "difference" images are weird.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by AZPaul3, posted 12-25-2015 7:36 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 112 of 138 (774991)
12-26-2015 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
12-25-2015 3:50 PM


Faith writes:
Not entirely sure what you are trying to say, but I suppose you think that chapter of Jeremiah really does forbid Christmas trees?
No Faith - I just thought it was funny that someone thought it necessary to stop someone else doing something harmless with a tree. Your god is a hoot.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 12-25-2015 3:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 12-26-2015 3:42 AM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 113 of 138 (774992)
12-26-2015 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Tangle
12-26-2015 3:37 AM


OK I get it now. Of course an atheist wouldn't see a problem with idolatry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2015 3:37 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2015 4:13 AM Faith has replied
 Message 116 by Straggler, posted 12-26-2015 4:30 AM Faith has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 114 of 138 (774994)
12-26-2015 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
12-26-2015 3:42 AM


Faith writes:
OK I get it now. Of course an atheist wouldn't see a problem with idolatry.
Of course anyone found doing some of this evil tree decoration would go into the everlasting fire and torment of hell - that goes without saying - but would their friends and neighbours be obliged to hasten them there by stoning them to death?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 12-26-2015 3:42 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Faith, posted 12-26-2015 4:21 AM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 115 of 138 (774995)
12-26-2015 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Tangle
12-26-2015 4:13 AM


It continues to astonish me how a Brit could have absolutely zero knowledge of the Christianity that made the UK great.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2015 4:13 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2015 5:03 AM Faith has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(4)
Message 116 of 138 (774996)
12-26-2015 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
12-26-2015 3:42 AM


Idolatry
Of course an atheist wouldn't see a problem with idolatry
Shouldn't that be 'idol a tree'....?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 12-26-2015 3:42 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 12-26-2015 4:33 AM Straggler has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 117 of 138 (774997)
12-26-2015 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Straggler
12-26-2015 4:30 AM


Re: Idolatry
That's cute but I do have to point out that it isn't the tree that's the idol, it's the god images that were carved out of the wood, as I showed with the Google Image pages.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Straggler, posted 12-26-2015 4:30 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Straggler, posted 12-26-2015 4:44 AM Faith has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 118 of 138 (774998)
12-26-2015 4:44 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Faith
12-26-2015 4:33 AM


Re: Idolatry
Speak for yourself. Pagan style tree worship is rife in my household at this time of year.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 12-26-2015 4:33 AM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 119 of 138 (774999)
12-26-2015 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Faith
12-26-2015 4:21 AM


Faith writes:
It continues to astonish me how a Brit could have absolutely zero knowledge of the Christianity that made the UK great.
Sadly it was Christianity that held us back for centuries, milenia even, it took the enlightenment and the scientific revolution to make us an important force in the world.
But you didn't answer my question, what happens to tree decorators?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Faith, posted 12-26-2015 4:21 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 12-26-2015 6:44 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 122 by AZPaul3, posted 12-26-2015 6:55 AM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 120 of 138 (775001)
12-26-2015 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Tangle
12-26-2015 5:03 AM


Why should anything happen to tree decorators? Or even idol carvers for that matter?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2015 5:03 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2015 6:51 AM Faith has replied

  
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