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Author Topic:   No tipping?
Theodoric
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Posts: 8140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 31 of 41 (771024)
10-17-2015 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by NoNukes
10-17-2015 12:17 AM


Re: Rules for Tipping
Cat Sci says his friends only claim 10% of their tips in order to pay less taxes. This makes no sense as the employer withholds for for the waitpersons taxes based upon 8% of total sales. In other words the government expects your are getting 8% tips.
Lets say the person had $1000 in sales and and averaged 15% in tips. They would have made $150. If they claimed they only made 10% of that they would claim $15. Their tax withholding is going to be for $80. The government is not going to let them claim $15 in tips, they are going to tax them on $80.
ABE
I see I worded things unclearly in my original post. The employer does not withhold 8% of sales for taxes, but bases withholding on 8% of sales. I hope this clarifies.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 32 of 41 (771027)
10-17-2015 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Modulous
10-16-2015 2:53 PM


Re: Rules for Tipping
Modulous writes:
UK waiters, over the age of 25 can expect about $10-11.00/hour + tips. Even 15 year old waiters can expect $6 / hour + tips.
What? WHAT? Age discrimination? In Canada, minimum wage means minimum wage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2015 2:53 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 41 (771055)
10-18-2015 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coragyps
10-16-2015 9:32 AM


Chain diners - IHOP, Denny's, etc., are about $8 or $9 for a breakfast like that, with the coffee additional. A mom-n-pop cafe might be $2 cheaper.
That's about the same price as around here.
Obviously it's not true that paying a fair base wage will increase the costs for the customers.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Coragyps, posted 10-16-2015 9:32 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 41 (771056)
10-18-2015 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Percy
10-17-2015 8:31 AM


Re: Rules for Tipping
But wouldn't most servers recognize that there is more than just that one possibility that the customer is cheap?
Again, the communication is simply not exact because there is more than one reason why you get a smaller than expected tip. The fact that some other waiter got a big tip from someone else really does not speak directly to the smaller tip you gave, does it?
Or did you mean having a conversation with the server about the tip at the end of the meal? If so, that would feel pretty weird.
Not a conversation about the tip, but about the service. If you tell the waiter the service was no good, then he's more likely to get the message sent by the bad tip. But trying to send the message with the tip alone can easily result in a missed message.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Percy, posted 10-17-2015 8:31 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Percy, posted 10-19-2015 8:16 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21347
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 35 of 41 (771060)
10-19-2015 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by NoNukes
10-18-2015 7:26 PM


Re: Rules for Tipping
NoNukes writes:
Again, the communication is simply not exact...etc...
Gee, why does that sound so familiar? Oh, because I just finished saying almost the same thing in the message you're replying to:
Percy in Message 29 writes:
Wouldn't most understand that it's somewhat of a crap shoot...
...
So, yes, tipping is an imperfect system for communicating satisfaction with a specific instance of providing service for a meal, but there's still plenty of information there, and the general idea of tipping is to provide motivation to provide good service.
You have a unique talent for molding agreement into argument.
Or did you mean having a conversation with the server about the tip at the end of the meal? If so, that would feel pretty weird.
Not a conversation about the tip, but about the service. If you tell the waiter the service was no good, then he's more likely to get the message sent by the bad tip. But trying to send the message with the tip alone can easily result in a missed message.
You're trying to solve a problem I don't have, and that I think most people don't have. Like many things in life, tipping is not perfect, but it works well enough. I'm fine with tipping. If I have any problems with tipping it's that it may be going away, which is why I started this thread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by NoNukes, posted 10-18-2015 7:26 PM NoNukes has replied

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 41 (771062)
10-19-2015 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Percy
10-16-2015 4:09 PM


Re: Rules for Tipping
Oh, I didn't realize you were getting off into general table waiting. That wasn't what I was wondering about. I said I thought waiting tables at places like TGI Friday's, Longhorn's, Applebee's, etc., seemed pretty lucrative and was wondering if that was true.
I took a look at some salary information on Glassdoor. The information may not be reliable because there were not very many participants, but the average TGI friday waiter salary was 25k. Applebees was about 20K while Longhorn was about 27K. I am sure that waiters at some restaurants make tips several times those cited below, but perhaps the information below is better than anecdotal.
TGI Fridays Waiter Salaries | Glassdoor
Applebee s Waiter Salaries | Glassdoor
LongHorn Steakhouse Server Salaries | Glassdoor
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Percy, posted 10-16-2015 4:09 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 41 (771063)
10-19-2015 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Percy
10-19-2015 8:16 AM


Re: Rules for Tipping
Gee, why does that sound so familiar? Oh, because I just finished saying almost the same thing in the message you're replying to:
I was answering your question about whether the server would get the message by comparing his tips to his fellow waiters etc. The answer is 'not necessarily'.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Percy, posted 10-19-2015 8:16 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 1599 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 38 of 41 (771505)
10-26-2015 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by ringo
10-17-2015 11:57 AM


Re: Rules for Tipping
What? WHAT? Age discrimination?
Its something of a peculiar issue. The government's position is that the action is justified to protect younger worker's jobs, but obviously not everybody agrees. To add to the complication there is also a National Living Wage which over 25s are entitled to.
In Canada, minimum wage means minimum wage.
No it doesn't.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 21347
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 39 of 41 (903897)
12-18-2022 8:56 AM


Time To Resume The Tipping Conversation
Since 2015 when we had this conversation about tipping things have changed a bit. Perhaps driven by covid, tipping seems to be everywhere.
My stance hasn't changed. I tip only in restaurants because the employees are underpaid on purpose and the difference is intended to be made up by tipping. I still think 15% should be the starting point, more for good service, less for bad.
Many believe the starting point should be 20%, but that means 25% or 30% for good service, and to me that high a tip just feels absurd.
I'm against tipping of anyone who isn't wait staff because only wait staff are exempt from Federal minimum wage laws. Why is there a tip jar in my pizza parlor? They're all paid around 10$/hour (a lot of kids in town have worked there, it's general knowledge). The wait staff in the restaurant a few hundred yards away? I don't know, but minimum wage for wait staff in my state is $3.26/hour, something else that's absurd. I'm sure they pay more than that but have no way of knowing what they actually pay.
We went to a 110 Grill with friends last weekend. We couldn't get a table at the time we wanted, so we got one in the next time slot. When we arrived we found there were plenty of tables available. We asked and were told the reason we couldn't get a reservation earlier wasn't because of a lack of tables but a lack of wait staff. This 110 Grill could only use about half their restaurant space because of a lack of staff.
Maybe if restaurants paid their wait staff more than $6.15/hour (we were in Massachusetts, not New Hampshire) they wouldn't have that problem. I have no idea how much discretion a 110 Grill manager has for setting his own wages independent of corporate, but I don't see how he can pay the rent while only half his restaurant is bringing in money.
The service was fine but we tipped an incredible 36%. Why? I don't know, ask my wife, she happened to be on the outside of the booth and so she grabbed the bill and I wasn't paying attention because I was engaged in conversation.
I'm sticking to my guns. If you're not wait staff you get no tip, and if you are wait staff then tips are 15%, plus or minus depending upon service. If you're a restaurant manager who can't hire enough wait staff then you increase your wages. If you're an automated checkout machine, which have become especially obnoxious, you especially get no tip. And I'll vote for anyone for national office who commits to eliminating the Federal exemption from minimum wage laws for wait staff.
Oh, about the Danny Meyer Restaurants to Eliminate Tipping article that opened this discussion back in 2015? The owning Union Square Hospitality Group resumed tipping in 2020 during covid.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 12-18-2022 9:30 AM Percy has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17111
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 40 of 41 (903900)
12-18-2022 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Percy
12-18-2022 8:56 AM


Re: Time To Resume The Tipping Conversation
Does New Hampshire only pay ten dollars an hour regular minimum? Are you sure about that?
In Colorado, that wouldn't work except for minors, perhaps. And even then, living with Mom and Dad is only a subsidy if Mom and/or Dad earn a decent wage themselves. Hence why we have so many more homeless people than we had even ten years ago. Times are changing rapidly. My Grocery store hires teens and pays them $16.00 an hour to start. I asked Alexa about minimum wages but "she" apparently only cites 2019 statistics, which have changed dramatically.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Percy, posted 12-18-2022 8:56 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Percy, posted 12-18-2022 10:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21347
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 41 of 41 (903904)
12-18-2022 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
12-18-2022 9:30 AM


Re: Time To Resume The Tipping Conversation
Phat writes:
Does New Hampshire only pay ten dollars an hour regular minimum?
If you reread my post you'll see that I said it is the local pizza house that pays $10/hour. The minimum wage in New Hampshire is the same as the federal minimum wage, $7.25/hour.
But no one will work for that little. I'd be guessing at how little someone might accept in NH, but I'd guess the floor is around $9/hour, and that would be a teenager around 15 or 16 getting their first job.
The point I was making earlier about tipping was that people not exempt from federal minimum wage laws should not be tipped.
Here's another tipping issue: When staying in a hotel with maid service, should you tip the maid? In the old days you might run into the maids for your floor several times during the week. You knew that when you left a tip that your maids would get it.
But the hotels I've always stayed at no longer offer daily room service. Many only offer room service when you request it, and the maids seem to change every day. While we used to consider tipping the maids because we were sure the maids who worked on our room would receive it, that's no longer true and we no longer tip the maids.
--Percy

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