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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 500 of 2887 (824342)
11-27-2017 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 495 by jar
11-26-2017 8:14 PM


Re: what a pathetic God Dredge markets
jar,to Dredge writes:
Or maybe you are like most Bible Christians that have simply never honestly read the Bible?
Not too many people read the Bible in order to critique it. They are searching for GOD....that character whom we all seek in order to receive a promise of a better tomorrow

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by jar, posted 11-26-2017 8:14 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by ringo, posted 11-27-2017 11:17 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 503 by Coragyps, posted 11-27-2017 2:06 PM Phat has replied
 Message 505 by dwise1, posted 11-28-2017 12:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 501 of 2887 (824343)
11-27-2017 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by Dredge
11-27-2017 3:04 AM


Hope
Dredge writes:
But there are many mysteries which humans cannot answer without divine revelation.
And we hope that when we meet GOD He will give us answers and blessings rather than a list of more questions and chores to do.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Dredge, posted 11-27-2017 3:04 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 504 of 2887 (824381)
11-27-2017 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by Coragyps
11-27-2017 2:06 PM


Re: what a pathetic God Dredge markets
ringo writes:
To paraphrase, "If you seek God, look at His cathedral, not the brochure."
Many would argue that we are the Cathedral...Living Stones as it were. Which would lend support to jars assertion that Christianity is about what one does rather than what one believes.
Coragyps writes:
Whom we ALL seek?
Speak for yourself.
Sorry...I forgot that we all dont seek it.
I am examining Biblical Christian beliefs over at my new topic.
R.C.Sprouls Teaching On Reformed Theology
Im going to focus my replies over there.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Coragyps, posted 11-27-2017 2:06 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 508 by ringo, posted 11-28-2017 11:01 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(2)
Message 587 of 2887 (825445)
12-14-2017 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 582 by Dredge
12-14-2017 10:08 PM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
Catholics who accept evolution are not practising true Catholicism.
Wait a minute...didnt the Holy See himself condone evolution? Or is he too an imitator?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 582 by Dredge, posted 12-14-2017 10:08 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 634 of 2887 (826334)
12-29-2017 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 633 by RAZD
12-29-2017 7:31 AM


Re: Dredge Creationism
I tend to see myself as a Cosmological Creationist in that I believe that the universe logically has a Creator...but beyond that I dont emphasize this whole earth creationism thing...apart from perhaps the motives, workings, and intentions of the human soul. I feel that limiting my belief to what one book says is crippling my objectivity. Not that I don't respect the Bible. I believe that the GOD whom I believe in would not disapprove of my inquisitive nature.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 633 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2017 7:31 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 635 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2017 8:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2038 of 2887 (831491)
04-19-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2037 by jar
04-19-2018 10:20 AM


Kudzu

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2037 by jar, posted 04-19-2018 10:20 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2043 by edge, posted 04-19-2018 10:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2482 of 2887 (832193)
04-30-2018 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2479 by Percy
04-30-2018 4:06 PM


Where Science and Belief Diverge
Percy, to Faith writes:
We and you already know your reasons for believing in the flood are religious and Biblical. Why not just acknowledge that and give up on reconciling your views with science. It's a hopeless exercise for you because you know so little science, and because subordinating science to religion at every conflict guarantees failure at reconciliation.
This would be my approach. The alternative is to claim that many if not most scientists are delusional. While it can be argued that many will believe the "lie" mentioned in
2 Thess 2:10-12 writes:
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Percy is correct in that this is a religious argument and attempting to reconcile "facts" to fit the puzzle is indeed an exercise in futility. I don't believe that everyone who disagrees with my belief is delusional.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2479 by Percy, posted 04-30-2018 4:06 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2483 by jar, posted 04-30-2018 5:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2808 of 2887 (832628)
05-06-2018 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 2807 by Percy
05-06-2018 11:55 AM


The Meat Of The Issue
Percy writes:
This seems made up, too.
Faith writes:
Yes this is my own theory of course...that I've been arguing for the last decade or so. I don't know if it would ever be possible to persuade anyone here of it but it seems to me to hold together very well.....it's certainly consistent.
Percy writes:
Not even close. Not with itself or with reality or (and this is irrelevant to this thread's topic) with the first eight chapters of Genesis.
Faith writes:
If there are better ways to argue for it I hope I run across them.
Percy writes:
Oh, the better ways to argue for your viewpoint are not subtle or obscure or anything that has to be sought out. They are things not only obvious to first graders but that have been explicitly suggested to you many times by many people in this thread and in many others. To list just the ones that come to mind right now:
  • Define your terms, for example, kind.
  • Don't make stuff up.
  • Don't endlessly defend made up stuff.
  • Support your assertions with facts or a rationale or both, as appropriate.
  • Respond to the points others make in a substantive way, in other words, with facts or a rationale or both, as appropriate.
  • Do not ignore posts, especially content laden posts. Especially do not ignore content laden posts by replying with two or three dismissive lines, or by responding to one point while ignoring all the others.
  • Learn your subject.
  • Do not post content-free messages.
  • Stay on topic.
  • Do not post conceited boastful claims about yourself that turn you into the topic of discussion, and that people will feel compelled to rebut.
  • Do not leave important and relevant issues unaddressed. Examples in this thread would be radiometric dating, Walther's Law, sediment sorting, fossil sorting, the specifics of how waves deliver sediments, etc.
--Percy
Perhaps you are not asking Faith the right questions. Keep in mind that her reasoning is based on supporting the belief that she knows to be true.
We have compared it to this cartoon many times before:
Perhaps you should ask her if she honestly believes that by being an enlightened believer that God gives her the wisdom to reason out how the flood must have happened?
Then you might ask her why the other methods of reasoning employed by so many others, yourself included...are wrong and why they are wrong.
She will be forced to acknowledge that her belief drives her contrary observations.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2807 by Percy, posted 05-06-2018 11:55 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 2883 of 2887 (832831)
05-11-2018 11:44 PM


We All Win
EvC Forum has a belief motto: Understanding through Discussion
Long discussions such as this thread often shed light on the reasoning and/or belief of the participants.
There is no winning or losing in these types of debates. Further understanding is hopefully the desired result.
That's my summary and I'm sticking to it!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

  
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