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Author | Topic: As I Suspected... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
It's not only that they haven't been effective; it's that they never will be.
Their goal is to make black lives matter. Have you read their list of demands?
Similarly, the legislation you're demanding to see the obvious benefits from was signed into law 37 days ago. Patience might seem reasonable. I don't expect a list of statistics; but I think anyone suggesting that the legislation will make black lives matter might be able to show the mechanism by which it would do that.Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Jon writes:
I googled one:
Their goal is to make black lives matter. Have you read their list of demands?quote:Seriously, you don't think an end to the murder of black people will make black lives better? You don't think full employment will make black lives better? You don't think decent housing will make lives better?
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Jon Inactive Member |
To compare BLM to King is to really have no shame.
Aside from involving black folk, the two couldn't be more different.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Wanting things doesn't improve the lives of anyone...
Love your enemies!
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Their goal is to make black lives matter.
My take is that their main goal is to increase public awareness of the issues. I think they have been quite successful at that. It takes years, perhaps generations, for there to be widespread cultural changes in the culture. Raising awareness is the first step.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Jon responds to me:
quote: You still hear nothing.
quote: Except you have been given examples. Laws have been passed. Sanders has brought BLM into his campaign. You seem to be of the opinion that unless things change immediately, there is no "effectiveness" to be had. Do you really think that centuries of racism are going to be changed in a year? And on top of that, BLM is just the latest in a long line of protests going back to King and before. Do you really not understand this? That you and I are even talking about this is "effectiveness." Time for you to indicate what it is you would accept as "effectiveness."Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Jon writes:
Wanting things is the first step on the path to getting them. Wanting things doesn't improve the lives of anyone... What they want seems pretty reasonable. What the @#$% is your problem?
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Jon Inactive Member |
Breaking this off from the What's the deal with motor vehicle violations? thread:
quote: If these movements want to be taken seriously, a good place to start would be for the people involved in the police 'mistreatment' to not be criminals, thugs, or hooligans. It's hard to get anyone serious to rally behind you when you're boohooing about the police getting a little too rough or trigger-happy with a bunch of crooks and troublemakers. Interestingly, there are examples of police unprovokingly injuring, killing, or harassing completely innocent people:
quote: So why didn't an event like this prompt days' worth of protesting? Where were the marches in the street? Where were the outcries? For this poor defenseless girl, the outcries were eerily absent. Yet we can't stop hearing about gun-toting Tamir and store-burglar Brown. Black-rights activists of today seem to have the strange habit of standing up for the bad guys and ignoring the good guys. It's little wonder racial divisions are growing wider in this country. Something's gone seriously wrong with the modern civil rights movement. They seem to have lost the moral footing that is required to give legitimacy to social movements. I would imagine MLK's rolling over in his grave.Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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If these movements want to be taken seriously, a good place to start would be for the people involved in the police 'mistreatment' to not be criminals, thugs, or hooligans. History suggests that scope of the rights you currently enjoy were vindicated during the prosecution of criminals. That's why you have miranda rights and why confessions that are rubber hosed out of you at the police station are not admissible. Besides that, it turns out that lots of people (you excepted) see something particularly tragic in a 12 year old having his life snuffed out a couple of seconds after the police show up. A 12 year old with a toy gun isn't a hooligan of any note. I accept that you, personally, don't give a crap about the lives of black people who are selling cigarettes illegally, but that tradeoff of life vs property is one of the issues in 'Black lives matter'. BLM protests do indeed fall on your deaf ears, but who gives a crap what you think. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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Criminals and hooligans have rights too. Why do you think you deserve more rights?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Jon Inactive Member |
The point is not that you can't or shouldn't demand rights for potential criminals; the point is that it is oddly suspect to only demand rights for those people while ignoring the rights of completely innocent twelve-year-old girls to walk outside without being beaten half to death by police who think she's a hooker despite knowing ahead of time that they were looking for white women.
The decision to protest in the names of folks such as Tamir Rice or Michael Brown while hardly having a word to say about poor Dymond Milburn speaks to the underlying values of the BLM movement: that thugs who wave guns around in a park or refuse to follow basic laws matter more than completely innocent children. The case of Dymond Milburn is such a clear example of police racism and vicious brutality, yet it is not for her sake BLM protests. Over her there is silence. But that's no surprise and is as I suspected, since it's clear to any reasonable observer that BLM is just a clever cover for hooligans and thugs, people who cannot even imagine identifying with someone like Dymond and are really only interested in protecting their own anarchist subgroup of the population who glorify lawlessness and resistance to everything decent. To try to equate or connect such people to MLK is shameful.Love your enemies!
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
If the point is to stop unjustified killings, then the movement needs to use examples of unjustified killings.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Jon writes:
quote: And you wonder why you keep getting called out for your privilege for that is a statement that comes from a place of privilege. In the US, about one-third of all black males will spend some time in prison at some point during his lifetime. In New York City, during the stop-and-frisk period, more incidents of stop-and-frisk were carried out on young black men than there were young black men in the city (168K stops versus only 158K individuals). In Brownsville, Brooklyn in 2009, 93% of the entire population was stopped by the police. Thus, to complain that the people being killed by the cops are "criminals, thugs, or hooligans" is to ignore the very racism that resulted in those people being "criminals, thugs, or hooligans" in the first place. And your invocation of MLK is very telling. Edited by Rrhain, : Incorrect attributionRrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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RrHain writes: Tangle writes: No he doesn't.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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My apologies. I've corrected the attribution.
Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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