|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: What's the deal with motor vehicle violations? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
NoNukes writes: I keep coming back to the idea that if the police didn't have a gun on their hip that it would go a long way to solving the problem. In the trunk maybe or at the end of the phone but not on your hip.
Yes! Yes! I think these ideas are incredibly naive. Did you think Prototypical was proposing that we unilaterally disarm our police? If he was, that's not how I interpreted it. Given current gun laws in the US, disarming our police would be foolhardy. But I didn't think that's what he was saying. The context is traffic stops. Do the police really need guns for traffic stops? This came up earlier in the discussion when making traffic cops more like meter maids was mentioned. Anyway, traffic police in the UK and France don't carry guns. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Did you think Prototypical was proposing that we unilaterally disarm our police? No, Percy, I thought he was talking about putting the gun in the trunk. What I am saying is that I think it understandable that police approach an unknown person at a traffic stop with a gun in their holster. On rare occasions which cannot be predicted, as is evidenced by recent news events, a gun is needed.
Do the police really need guns for traffic stops? Yes, they sometimes do need them. Unfortunately, this country is chock full of guns and they are occasionally in the hands of bad guys at traffic stops. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 348 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Yes, they sometimes do need them. Unfortunately, this country is chock full of guns and they are occasionally in the hands of bad guys at traffic stops. By this reasoning everyone needs a gun all the time. I think that Percy has the right idea of separating traffic enforcement from general policing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
By this reasoning everyone needs a gun all the time. Well, no. Most of us don't go poking around trouble and we don't walk up on strangers cars investigating. Policeman are supposed to do that. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Prototypical writes:
We already separate parking enforcement form traffic enforcement and general policing. Of course, parked cars generally don't have people in them. The people are the distinguishing factor, not the vehicles.
I think that Percy has the right idea of separating traffic enforcement from general policing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 348 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Yes there are 2 problems. The first one is people and the second one is other people. The solution is for all of the people to treat the other people as they would be treated. Cops and criminals don't do that so much.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes:
Stop galloping, Gish.
The solution is for all of the people to treat the other people as they would be treated. Cops and criminals don't do that so much.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
While cleaning up some old filing I discovered that I was going 80 mph, not 90 mph, in a 55 mph zone when I got that speeding ticket a couple years ago. I misremembered. The number might have inflated in my mind over time because I always recalled how upset the officer seemed at me.
I don't think this changes anything. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
|
...I discovered that I was going 80 mph, not 90 mph, in a 55 mph zone... Which makes the situation slightly less insane. You people don't need traffic cops, you need pace cars. Moose Added by edit later: Maybe the NH license plates need to say "Live Free and Die". Edited by Minnemooseus, : Added by edit later.Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 348 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined:
|
It's not gish galloping it's the free citizen agitation boogie. I can't focus on this topic for too long without getting pissed off. I realize how important the law is to a free society and to see it abused is just depressing.
I have no problem with empowering the police but they need to be absolutely accountable as opposed to enjoying some immunity from the laws that they are sworn to enforce. Under what conditions can anyone else assault or shoot someone by mistake and walk away unpunished? This idea of just doing as you are told so that you don't get shot or beaten is absolutely fucked. How does this differ from being ruled by thugs? It is the integrity of the police force that allows the promise of justice after the fact to work. It doesn't take much rot to ruin the whole thing. The problem lies in human nature and you can't give someone the power of life and death and then expect them to think like Gandhi. So take away the guns and put a camera on them. Get them firmly into the mindset that they are functionaries with no personal authority.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes:
Whatever you call it, it's unnecessary. I'm not disagreeing with you. It's not gish galloping it's the free citizen agitation boogie. I was just pointing out why traffic enforcement is lumped in with crime enforcement instead of with parking enforcement. It's because the traffic law breakers are just as dangerous to the public as criminal law breakers and they're liable to be just as dangerous to police too. The police are not dealing with "us" and "them". We are all "them". If you want the police to treat you well, you have to let them treat "criminals" the same way - because they can't tell the difference.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 348 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Well, no. Most of us don't go poking around trouble and we don't walk up on strangers cars investigating. Policeman are supposed to do that. If there is trouble then they should investigate. A burnt light or failure to signal is not a sign of criminal behaviour.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 348 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined:
|
It's because the traffic law breakers are just as dangerous to the public as criminal law breakers and they're liable to be just as dangerous to police too. Hogwash. A criminal means to do you harm and a minor traffic violation is in no way even remotely similar. Using a minor violation as an excuse to violate your civil rights is draconian.
The police are not dealing with "us" and "them". We are all "them". If you want the police to treat you well, you have to let them treat "criminals" the same way - because they can't tell the difference. We don't treat people like criminals until we know that they are, in fact, criminals. If you can't tell that they are a criminal then I would suggest that they are not a criminal and shouldn't be treated like one.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024