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Author Topic:   PZ Myers vs. Adaptationism
Tangle
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Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
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(1)
Message 4 of 49 (763149)
07-21-2015 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrHambre
07-21-2015 8:14 AM


Fair enough, but if you've actually studied biology at all, you'd know he's not saying anything new, just trying to put some internet idiots right about a few things.
He's also being somewhat disingenuous and I think very misleading about selection. Most of the time when he's taking about it he's referring to trivial changes between individuals that don't get selected for, but the major stuff - he refers to arms and legs - DO rely on selection over long periods of time inside populations. He really needs to get into that if he wants to make the point better.
I'm not sure what your reference to the Selfish Gene is, Dawkins would have no issue with anything said here.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MrHambre, posted 07-21-2015 8:14 AM MrHambre has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 10 of 49 (763209)
07-22-2015 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by MrHambre
07-22-2015 10:34 AM


Re: Spandrels and Storytelling
Mr Hambre writes:
How does Dawkins know natural selection is the only explanation for the phenomena he described?
But that is not his position - it's what you claim his position is. Quite different.
Dawkins knows more about evolution than almost anybody on the planet, you can take it that he knows and understands that, for instance, genetic drift may be responsible for much of evolutionary change.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by MrHambre, posted 07-22-2015 10:34 AM MrHambre has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 22 of 49 (763416)
07-24-2015 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by MrHambre
07-24-2015 3:28 PM


Re: Design Flaws
MrHambre writes:
Selection as the engine of a population's uphill struggle in an adaptive landscape is just the sort of goal-oriented rhetoric that's inappropriate in describing evolution by natural selection.
This is just nonsense. You appear to approach every topic with a agenda that first requires a straw man to be erected then defended despite no-one actually taking the staunch positions you would like them to take. What's the problem?
It's been conventional biological knowledge for a couple of generations that there is more than one source of evolution - no modern biologist would disagree, including Dawkins.
There's nothing to see here.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by MrHambre, posted 07-24-2015 3:28 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 26 of 49 (763426)
07-24-2015 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by MrHambre
07-24-2015 4:16 PM


Re: An argument about nothing
Cobblers, there's no controversy.
If you really need to find a punch up involving evolution and Dawkins have a look at group selection.
But this is just how science and journalism works, there's no need for the rest of us to fall for the bollox.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by MrHambre, posted 07-24-2015 4:16 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 43 of 49 (765468)
07-29-2015 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by MrHambre
07-29-2015 12:23 PM


Re: Spandrels and Storytelling
MrH writes:
They're not saying natural selection isn't important to evolution, just that other nonselective forces have to be considered too.
And no biologists in the world would disagree. Including Dawkins. So what the hell are you trying to say??

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by MrHambre, posted 07-29-2015 12:23 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
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