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Author Topic:   There is no evolution or creationism - this is the new Matrix/DNA world view
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 41 of 149 (762330)
07-11-2015 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by TheMatrix/DNA
07-10-2015 2:34 PM


Re: To Percy
Hello Matrix/DNA,
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
So we had the atom system, the stellar, the galactic, the cell system and finally the self-conscious system( all these natural systems were our ancestrals).
Your theory is then that there was a:
Atom system,
Stellar system,
Galactic system,
Cell system and,
Self-conscious system which is the present system.
All these natural systems evolved by small evolutionary steps.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
my method of investigation/calculations can't go beyond the natural limits of universe's spacetime, so I don't know what's or who is the ex-machine creator
Message 1
So are you saying you don’t have a clue to what existed prior to the Big Bang?
But you admit there had to be something there. I call that something existence.
This sounds like what these guys have been telling me for years just using different words. And since they can not tell me how existence began to exist from non existence they have not convinced me.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
1) This is a common pattern identified at all natural systems, from light waves to atoms to astronomicals to cells, etc.
Now you have added a light waves system before the atom system.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
3) The formula is the algorithmic shape of the flow of energy/information that runs inside the systemic circuity connecting the parts of the system. Nature self-assembles systems applying the force of life's cycles upon an initial body containing mass, light and the energy carried by light. This force leads the body to change its shapes.
Message 7
If I understand what you are saying, it is that natural laws determined what we see today from what existed at the Big Bang. Is that correct?
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
Same happens with the history of the Universe. Before the beginning there was something, which we don't know, but let's call it, a system.
Message 12
So how long would that system of something exist in the past?
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
No, Percy, I don't mentioned it in my first post, only at the second for beginning to explain the formula, and if you don't do that - mentioning what is the end and the final of a new unknown world view - talking only about the middle of the history, it seems to be a building without foundations and roof. Like any cosmological theory, it is necessary to give the famous initial jump in the dark. Standard Theory do that when talking about the Big Bang and the smallest ex-machine atom and the final Big Crunch, the Bible'a theory do that when talking about genesis and the final judgement.
Message 29
The Bible explanation of creation does not take the initial jump in the dark. It tells exactly how many things began to exist unlike your theory or the BBT.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-10-2015 2:34 PM TheMatrix/DNA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-11-2015 5:05 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 53 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-12-2015 2:29 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 56 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-12-2015 4:25 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 57 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-12-2015 5:04 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 72 of 149 (762767)
07-15-2015 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by TheMatrix/DNA
07-11-2015 5:05 PM


Re: To Percy
Hi TheMatrix/DNA,
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
Yours list is in the order that the final results from Matrix/DNA are suggesting. But there is two things wrong in it:
1) All these systems are a unique system
Yes and all these systems are in existence today.
So how do you get to the point that in the past only one system existed?
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
The Matrix/DNA is suggesting that we must resuscitates the Haeckel's recapitulation theory
How do you resuscitate a theory that has long been debunked?
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
If you are a Christian believer you would appreciate this idea because Jesus always look to the soil and said "the son" and then look to the sky and said "the father". Son and father are pure genetics.
Can you point me to a Scripture that supports that assertion?
I do know He wrote in the sand one time when the woman who had been caught in adultery was brought to Him to judge her. But I can't find a text that says what you said.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
Atoms and galaxies are our ancestral shapes, in the sense that blastula and fetus were our primordial shapes. It means that there is a universal system that began to compose after the Big Bang and is evolving under the rules of vital cycles, like does it our own body.
I realize we are made of around 7*27 atoms.
But that does not mean that my atoms was in the shape of the galaxies does it?
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
2) Matrix/DNA results are suggesting that before atoms systems there was a long period of evolution from particles which already were systems in itself and this development fits with the Nobel Prize Hideki Yukawa theory
Yes there had to be an eternal existence prior to the Stellar system, and Galactic system. But that system would have to have atoms, and their subatomic particles.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
But as I said, this is cosmological discussion, far away off the issue that is my interest just now, which is Nature her and now.
But to explain a theory you have to begin at the beginning and proceed to the end for anyone to understand what you are trying to say.
I am a free thinker and have an open mind to anything and I question everything.
The other people you are talking to in this thread has a one track mind when it comes to scientific discussions and therefore they are not understanding anything you say. To them it is a bunch of gibberish.
If you want them to understand it you will have to break it down in an orderly manner and present it step 1, step 2, step 3, etc. Explaining each step and how you arrived at that point.
Then maybe they can follow you.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-11-2015 5:05 PM TheMatrix/DNA has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 87 of 149 (762934)
07-18-2015 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by TheMatrix/DNA
07-12-2015 5:04 AM


Re: To Percy
Hi TheMatrix/DNA
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
ICANT, you need know that it is not me that says before the beginning ( of the Universe) there was a system.
If there was a beginning to exist there could be no system prior to the beginning, as there would be non existence.
Therefore there has always been existence in some form.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
I am not mixed with the theory, this conclusion is not an anthropologic projection. It is the results of reading maps and interpreting models made by pure formal logics and real proved facts. The maps are pointing out that was a system, a natural and conscious system that was not a magician.
Sure you are mixed up with the theory that is what you are supposed to be explaining to us.
You are right the system was not a magician.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
This system must be bigger than the Universe, and its lifelong must be more than at least 20 billion years.
The system has to be bigger than the Universe as the Universe has to reside in the original system.
The system has to be an eternal system or else it had to have a beginning to exist from non existence which is impossible.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
if this ex-machine system is eternal or infinity no human brain could know it.
Sure the human brain can know it.
Simple logic proves that the system is eternal if not it had to begin to exist from non existence which is impossible.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
Because when we leave our observable universe and goes further beyond it we knows that there is a place where all know natural law becomes negative laws.
What makes you think all known natural laws become negative laws in the system the Universe resides in?
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
it is not conceivable for human beings that something arouse from Nothing and it is not conceivable that something never was born from something, in another words, that something is infinity. So, there is no third alternative to human brains. The supreme mistery is unsolvable by our brain in this evolutionary shape and if someone says that he/she knows the third alternative, it should be a lie.
The third alternative is that the eternal system created this Universe and all things in it.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
I don't need this solution to this ultimate question because what I know from this world is enough for explain my existence here and what is my mission here. I am a conscious gene building the embryo of a conscious being that will born for the world beyond this observable universe. And like the genes of my parents lifted up for to be the neurons in my head, I will be in the head of that being.
Can I assume from that statement that you believe you have a physical body, a mind, and a spirit that is going to live in a new body in a future world after this one melts with fervent heat?
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
I am here for helping all conscious genes like me to accomplish their mission
I am glad you want to help other accomplish their mission. I just don't think you have a clue as to how to help them prepare for the world that will come after this one melts with fervent heat.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-12-2015 5:04 AM TheMatrix/DNA has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 97 of 149 (763024)
07-19-2015 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by TheMatrix/DNA
07-19-2015 2:44 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi TheMatrix/DNA
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
( Sorry by the 2.000 words in no intelligible English, I know that nobody will read it, but this is the problem of the systemic approach and introduction to a new never imagined before world view. We will have this problem with aliens encounters, who has another kind of logics, and is good that we begin to training for it...)
Sorry to burst your balloon but I have read every word you have posted in this thread.
I do have problems with the placement of some English words in the sentences but that only takes a little longer to decifer.
Am I understanding you to be putting forth the idea that all the complexity that is found in human DNA has evolved from chaos as well as the DNA in all other creatures and things?
This is what all these guys has been trying to pound into my head for the past eight years.
That a single cell life form somehow began to exist from non existence and then began the process of evolution from a very simple RNA to a simple DNA and finally into the complex DNA that is in every human cell. It takes a CD or better of storage space (depending on who you are reading behind) to hold all the DNA information in each human cell.
Where did all that added information come from? Chaos can not produce it. Neither can mutations as most of them are determentinal to the cell.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-19-2015 2:44 PM TheMatrix/DNA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-19-2015 9:17 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 99 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2015 7:10 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 148 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 08-20-2015 1:05 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 149 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 08-20-2015 1:44 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 102 of 149 (765693)
08-04-2015 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by TheMatrix/DNA
07-12-2015 2:29 AM


Re: To Percy
Hi TheMatrix/DNA
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
We know that a human body during the period of embryogenesis change its shape from blastula, fetus, etc. But the embryonary body never comes to external existence in those prior shapes: it is born in the shape of human species. This is the last evolutionary shape coming from embryogenesis. By another hand, the last universal evolutionary shape we know here and now ( in this region of the universe and at this time of the universe) of that universal system is the shape of consciousness. So... the conclusion is obvious: the thing that was existing before the Big Bang also has the property of consciousness. We don't know if the shape of that mysterious thing is pure consciousness because we are not sue that consciousness will be the last more complex system in this universe. Maybe it is something more complex, yet. But, we can be sure that the prior existence is at least, self-conscious.
When the male sperm and the female egg combine the 23 chromosomes from each the DNA required to build a human exists in whatever you want to call that entity. I call it a human being.
The amazing thing is that the DNA that is present at that moment will always produce a human being. It never produces any other creature.
Since that human being has a mind, body and spirit what ever the existence before T=0 was it would have the same as man is created in that image and likeness.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-12-2015 2:29 AM TheMatrix/DNA has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Taq, posted 08-04-2015 2:48 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 103 of 149 (765694)
08-04-2015 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by TheMatrix/DNA
07-12-2015 4:25 AM


Re: To Percy
Hi, TheMatrix/DNA
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
Then came the shapes of fish, reptile, mammals, and all informations for these shapes were there at yours 'big bang". The creator does not need intervene in each phase of the Universe if He wants to build a human being, it is enough inserting all informations at the moment of the Big Bang.
I think you need to observe a sonogram of the growth of that human being.
TheMatrix/DNA writes:
The Universe knows only a method for producing new shapes of natural system and this method is that by which the Universe itself was created. There are lots of new informations that derives by fuzzy logics due the universal systemic functions deriving themselves in new shapes for performing its function in a new environment. But informations produced by fuzzy logics are not informations that never existed before, they are derived from the mixing of old informations. And these informations by fuzzy logics are detrimental since that they diminishes the perfection of the system they came from.
I believe you are correct concerning information. I also believe that new information would be required to be added to the DNA of any creature before it could evolve from a previous form.
Since there is no way to introduce new information into the DNA evolution is impossible.
And when you look into nature you are looking at the face of God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by TheMatrix/DNA, posted 07-12-2015 4:25 AM TheMatrix/DNA has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by MrHambre, posted 08-04-2015 2:28 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 108 by ringo, posted 08-05-2015 3:57 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 104 of 149 (765695)
08-04-2015 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by NoNukes
07-20-2015 7:10 AM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
I imagine that if you were playing a game of draw poker, you would always stand pat with your original cards because most of the cards in the deck would be detrimental to your hand.
Poker is a game.
Mutations are not a game. They are either beneficial or detrimental to the cell.
But beneficial or detrimental they can not produce new information.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2015 7:10 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Taq, posted 08-04-2015 2:45 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 109 by NoNukes, posted 08-05-2015 7:36 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 110 of 149 (766061)
08-11-2015 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Taq
08-04-2015 2:45 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi Taq,
Taq writes:
In order for this claim to be relevant, you need to show that evolution would need to produce new information (as you define it) in order to produce the biodiversity we see today.
Maybe I have got things wrong.
As I understand it each human cell has all the information required to build a human body. Is this true?
If each human cell has all the information required to build a human body, how can the information in those cells produce anything other than a human body?
For the information in those cells to produce something other than a human body a lot of new information would be required.
Where would that information come from?
Maybe you can clear this up for me.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Taq, posted 08-04-2015 2:45 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2015 11:05 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 119 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2015 2:28 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 121 by NoNukes, posted 08-12-2015 2:37 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 127 by Taq, posted 08-17-2015 4:19 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 111 of 149 (766063)
08-11-2015 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by NoNukes
08-05-2015 7:36 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
So you would discard three bad cards and draw new ones from the deck even though the cards from the deck are in random order. Why?
You really wouldn't want to play poker with me. Poker is a game of math.
NoNukes writes:
And what is the difference between a beneficial mutation and one that adds new information?
A beneficial mutation would be one where something is aided such as a worm in my garden. I spray him with poison and eventually his offspring builds an immunity to the poison. I would then have to use a different poison to control. his offspring. His offspring would develop an immunity to that poison and I would have to change poisons again. After the fourth generation I could return to the original poison and control that generation with it until they built up an immunity to the poison. So we would have and endless cycle of changing poisons. This critter would remain a worm.
New information introduced into the cells would cause the cells to build something other than the worm I had been trying to control.
This critter would be something other than a worm.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by NoNukes, posted 08-05-2015 7:36 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by NoNukes, posted 08-12-2015 2:09 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 112 of 149 (766064)
08-11-2015 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by ringo
08-05-2015 3:57 PM


Re: To Percy
Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
You don't need to "add new information". You just need to change the existing information.
Which the correction mechanism's in the DNA would correct.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by ringo, posted 08-05-2015 3:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by ringo, posted 08-11-2015 11:57 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 113 of 149 (766065)
08-11-2015 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by MrHambre
08-04-2015 2:28 PM


Re: Gene Duplication
Hi MrHambre,
MrHambre writes:
Ever heard of gene duplication? That's when DNA recombination gives rise to a copy of a gene, which then acquires mutations that make it produce a different protein and serve a different function in the organism.
If it is a duplicate it can do nothing that the original could not do.
Every time a duplicate cell is made it has the exact same DNA information as the original. If it didn't it would not be a duplicate.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by MrHambre, posted 08-04-2015 2:28 PM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2015 2:25 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 115 of 149 (766071)
08-11-2015 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Tangle
08-11-2015 11:05 AM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
Yup
Where is the explanation then.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2015 11:05 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2015 1:04 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 122 of 149 (766375)
08-17-2015 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Tangle
08-11-2015 1:04 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
But to help you out a bit. Biology does not expect, nor does evolution predict, that one species will give birth to a different species. That's Just creationist bollox ie a lie.
I don't expect one species to give birth to a different species.
Neither does the observed fossils indicate that one species gives birth to another species.
What is observed is that at different times in the earth's history that all of a sudden a lot of new species appeared and was observed.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2015 1:04 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Taq, posted 08-17-2015 4:37 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 130 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2015 4:54 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 123 of 149 (766376)
08-17-2015 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by New Cat's Eye
08-11-2015 2:28 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi Cat,
Cat writes:
Evolution happens to populations, not individuals.
So why is not that slow process observed on a daily basis today with a complete record of the process?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2015 2:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-17-2015 3:57 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 375 days)
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 124 of 149 (766377)
08-17-2015 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by NoNukes
08-12-2015 2:09 AM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
How exactly is that accomplished, ICANT. You are describing a possible result and not a mechanism.
I am not talking about a possible result. I am talking about observed results from years of farming.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by NoNukes, posted 08-12-2015 2:09 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by NoNukes, posted 08-17-2015 8:57 PM ICANT has replied

  
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