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Author Topic:   Discontinuing research about ID
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 320 of 393 (759366)
06-10-2015 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dubreuil
04-04-2015 5:51 AM


Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
Hi Martin. I noticed that you could use some help proving your point.
Here's a link to the introduction of the theory and pdf for more detail:
Theory Of Intelligent Design
Related computer models:
Intelligence Generator and Detector
http://www.planet-source-code.com/...goryOrSearchResults.asp

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dubreuil, posted 04-04-2015 5:51 AM Dubreuil has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-10-2015 8:21 PM GaryG has replied

  
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 322 of 393 (759371)
06-10-2015 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by New Cat's Eye
06-10-2015 8:21 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
I'm here to explain the theory. Do you have a question?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-10-2015 8:21 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-10-2015 8:53 PM GaryG has replied

  
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 325 of 393 (759380)
06-10-2015 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by New Cat's Eye
06-10-2015 8:53 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
quote:
Considering that you're posting a claim of "the only ID theory" in a thread that was started with another different ID theory, how do you feel about the other ID theory and what it says?
They appear to be attempting to find evidence that a theory is possible, not present a theory of ID.
quote:
You called the OP "Martin", do you know them?
No, not personally.
quote:
Are you familiar with their theory?
I understand the paper well enough to know they needed help making their point that a theory was possible.
quote:
Again from your first link:
quote:
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby the behavior of matter powers a coexisting trinity of systematically self-similar (in each other's image, likeness) intelligent systems at the molecular, cellular and multicellular level as follows:
Come on now; that's the Christian Holy Trinity. Why should a scientific paper suppose that the Trinity best explains the intelligent cause of a certain features of the universe?
It's not the "Christian Holy Trinity" but it's certainly ironic how it turned out this way:
quote:
Definition of TRINITY
Trinity Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
1
: the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead according to Christian dogma
2
not capitalized : a group of three closely related persons or things
You are simply stereotyping.
quote:
I'm already wondering if your religious beliefs are causing a bias in your research.
I'm not a church goer or follower of any certain religion. My life revolves around science.
quote:
Before I do a deep dive into your work, how can I be sure that this is all isn't just a big convoluted exercise in The Sharpshooter Fallacy?
I guess there is no way to know until you are able to understand it. But it helps to have some experience in computer modeling, electronics and cognitive science.
quote:
Can't you just explain the whole theory in a single sentence?
No. There is way too much vital information to fit in one sentence (unless it's a couple of pages long then maybe).
quote:
Like, if I was explaining the Theory of Evolution in a single sentence, I'd be like:
The diversity of the species here can be explained by a process of decent with modification, where random mutations that are passed on from parents to offspring are acted upon by natural selection, where the environment impacts the reproductive success of the population.
That does not explain how intelligence and intelligent cause works. You are using generalizations that oversimplify the origin of species and are unable to explain the origin of life, or intelligence. So yes you only need one sentence, while I need 50 or more just to get started.
Edited by GaryG, : Fix underline.
Edited by GaryG, : Remove underlining characters that did not work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-10-2015 8:53 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 326 of 393 (759381)
06-10-2015 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by jar
06-10-2015 9:31 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
quote:
Since there is already a competing theory that is supported by actual evidence and that adequately explains what is seen, the first question anyone trying to market ID needs to answer is "Why should a secondary theory even be considered unless it can explain what is seen better than the TOE?"
Darwinian theory is not for explaining how intelligence works, nor is it able to explain the origin of life/intelligence.
There is no "competing theory".
Edited by GaryG, : To add: There is no "competing theory".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by jar, posted 06-10-2015 9:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by jar, posted 06-10-2015 10:13 PM GaryG has replied

  
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 328 of 393 (759385)
06-10-2015 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by jar
06-10-2015 10:13 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
Jar, how much of the theory have you studied and understand?
And could you please explain the origin of intelligence, including your operational definition for the phenomenon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by jar, posted 06-10-2015 10:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by jar, posted 06-10-2015 10:35 PM GaryG has replied

  
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 330 of 393 (759387)
06-10-2015 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by jar
06-10-2015 10:35 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
quote:
And how much of what theory?
The theory I am here to discuss:
quote:
Introduction
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby the behavior of matter powers a coexisting trinity of systematically self-similar (in each other's image, likeness) intelligent systems at the molecular, cellular and multicellular level as follows:
(1) Molecular Level Intelligence: Behavior of matter causes self-assembly of molecular systems that in time become molecular level intelligence, where biological RNA and DNA memory systems learn over time by replication of their accumulated genetic knowledge through a lineage of successive offspring. This intelligence level controls basic growth and division of our cells, is a primary source of our instinctual behaviors, and causes molecular level social differentiation (i.e. speciation).
(2) Cellular Level Intelligence: Molecular level intelligence is the intelligent cause of cellular level intelligence. This intelligence level controls moment to moment cellular responses such as locomotion/migration and cellular level social differentiation (i.e. neural plasticity). At our conception we were only at the cellular intelligence level. Two molecular intelligence systems (egg and sperm) which are on their own unable to self-replicate combined into a single self-replicating cell, called a zygote. The zygote then divided to become a colony of cells called an embryo. Later during fetal development we became a functional multicellular intelligence with self-learning brain to control motor muscle movements1 (also sweat gland motor muscles).
(3) Multicellular Level Intelligence: Cellular level intelligence is the intelligent cause of multicellular level intelligence. In this case a multicellular body is controlled by an intelligent neural brain expressing all three intelligence levels at once, resulting in our complex and powerful paternal (fatherly), maternal (motherly) and other behaviors. This intelligence level controls our moment to moment multicellular responses, locomotion/migration and multicellular level social differentiation (i.e. occupation). Successful designs remain in the biosphere’s interconnected collective (RNA/DNA) memory to help keep going the billions year old cycle of life where in our case not all individuals must reproduce for the human lineage to benefit from all in society.
Reciprocal cause/causation goes in both the forward and reverse direction. These behavioral pathways cause all of our complex intelligence related behaviors to connect back to the behavior of matter, which does not necessarily need to be intelligent to be the fundamental source of consciousness.
A behavior from any system qualifies as intelligent behavior by meeting all four circuit requirements for this ability, which are: [1] something to control (body or modeling platform) with motor muscles (proteins, electric speaker, electronic write to a screen), [2] Random Access Memory (RAM) addressed by sensory sensors where each motor action and its associated confidence value are separate data elements, [3] confidence (central hedonic, homeostasis) system that increments (stored in memory) confidence value of a successful motor action else decrements the confidence value, [4] guess mechanism for a new memory action when associated confidence level sufficiently decreases. For flagella powered cells a random guess response (to a new heading) is designed into the motor system by the action of reversing motor direction causing it to tumble.
At all biological intelligence levels whatever sensory the system has to work with addresses a memory that works like a random access memory chip used in a computer. It is possible to put the contents of a RAM into a Read Only Memory (ROM) but using a ROM instead of RAM takes away the system's ability to self-learn, it cannot form new memories that are needed to adapt to new environments. The result is more of a zombie that may at first appear to be a fully functional intelligence but they are missing something necessary, a RAM in the circuit, not a ROM. Behavior of matter does not need to be intelligent, a fully trained (all knowing) ROM could be used to produce atomic/molecular behavior. But a ROM would not work where intelligent behavior is needed. Unless the ROM contains all-knowing knowledge of the future and all the humans it will ever meet in its lifetime it can never recall memories of meeting them, or their name and what they look like.
For machine intelligence the IBM Watson system that won at Jeopardy qualifies as intelligent. Word combinations for hypotheses were guessed then tested against memory for confidence in each being a hypothesis that is true and whether confident enough in its best answer to push a button/buzzer. The Watson platform had a speaker (for vocal muscles) and muscles guiding a pen was simulated by an electric powered writing device.
For computer modeling purposes the behavior of matter can be thought of as being all-knowing in the sense that the behavior is inherent, does not have to learn its responses. A computer model then starts off with this behavior already in memory and has no GUESS or CONFIDENCE included in the algorithm, as does intelligence. Memory contents then never changes. Only a GUESS can write new data to memory and GUESS must here be taken out of the algorithm. But it is possible to leave the CONFIDENCE in the algorithm, it will still work the exact same way. Where this in time proves to be true for real matter it would be a valuable clue as to how consciousness works and possibly how to model it, which may in turn help answer the big questions including those pertaining to afterlife.
We are part of a molecular learning process that keeps itself going through time by replicating previous contents of genetic memory along with good (better than random) guesses what may work better in the next replication, for our children. The resulting cladogram shows a progression of adapting designs evidenced by the fossil record where never once was there not a predecessor of similar design (which can at times lead to entirely new function) present in memory for the descendant design to have come from.
The combined knowledge of all three of these intelligence levels guides spawning salmon of both sexes on long perilous migrations to where they were born and may stay to defend their nests "till death do they part". Merciless alligators will fiercely protect their well-cared-for offspring who are taught how to lure nest building birds into range by putting sticks on their head and they will scurry into the safety of her mouth when in danger. For humans this instinctual and learned knowledge has through time guided us towards marriage ceremonies to ask for "blessing" from an eternal conscious loving "spirit" existing at another level our multicellular intelligence level may sense but cannot directly experience. It is possible that one or both of the parents will later lose interest in the partnership, or they may have more offspring than they can possibly take care of, or none at all, but "for better or for worse" for such intelligence anywhere in the universe, there will nonetheless be the love we need and cherish to guide us, forever through generations of time...
Theory Of Intelligent Design

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Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Coyote, posted 06-11-2015 12:37 AM GaryG has replied
 Message 333 by JonF, posted 06-11-2015 7:52 AM GaryG has not replied
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 Message 338 by Admin, posted 06-11-2015 3:11 PM GaryG has replied

  
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 332 of 393 (759392)
06-11-2015 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Coyote
06-11-2015 12:37 AM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
There was no scientific theory of ID ever presented in Dover. None existed at the time. But there is one now, so get used to it:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Coyote, posted 06-11-2015 12:37 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by NoNukes, posted 06-11-2015 9:39 AM GaryG has not replied

  
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 339 of 393 (759467)
06-11-2015 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Admin
06-11-2015 3:11 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
Hi Percy,
That's an interesting suggesting. After having been linked to this thread I only wanted to let Martin know that I'm making good progress on a theory, then wait for a possible reply. I'm currently getting another computer model of interest to the AI field ready for submitting and should be working on that, not getting tied down in another anti-ID forum that has no interest in cognitive science models and ass-kicking theory.
I am honestly better off devoting my time to those who have an interest in learning and advancing science. But for the sake of those in this forum who might possibly want to have a scientific discussion I could ignore the insults, so I'm considering your offer. It just seems though that anyone who would be interested in such a challenge have already given up on this gang, and are now gone.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by RAZD, posted 06-11-2015 9:53 PM GaryG has not replied
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GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 341 of 393 (759491)
06-12-2015 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 338 by Admin
06-11-2015 3:11 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
Percy writes:
Rather than co-opting a thread for one ID theory to discuss a different ID theory,
And to be clear I must repeat what I said on the previous page:
Me writes:
They appear to be attempting to find evidence that a theory is possible, not present a theory of ID.

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Replies to this message:
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GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 347 of 393 (759534)
06-12-2015 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by Theodoric
06-12-2015 4:51 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
Theodoric writes:
It seems he might be Gary Gaulin himself. I am amazingly underwhelmed.
You are very observant! LOL!!
GaryG = Gary Gaulin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Theodoric, posted 06-12-2015 4:51 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 349 of 393 (759562)
06-13-2015 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 348 by JonF
06-12-2015 9:34 PM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
JonF writes:
GG gets lambasted wherever he goes,
Actually, no.
I simply have enough common sense to not invite trouble to where you're not welcomed. It's your loss, not mine...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by JonF, posted 06-12-2015 9:34 PM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2015 4:38 AM GaryG has replied

  
GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 351 of 393 (759564)
06-13-2015 5:23 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Tangle
06-13-2015 4:38 AM


Re: Theory of Intelligent Design - Get it here!
Tangle writes:
Well some of us have never heard of you and care less. I suggest you say whatever it is you want to say and it'll be treated on its merits.
I already said all that I need to say in this forum, to Martin, just in case they are serious about ID theory.
Only a fool would believe that a theory like this would be treated on its scientific merits by a religiously motivated forum that only does a good job throwing insults and misrepresenting all I say. In a situation like this I should not talk about it. I already provided a link anyway, and you should not need me to spoon feed it to you. It's best that you and others are completely undermined by what lurks in scientific places you are unable to control.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2015 4:38 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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GaryG
Junior Member (Idle past 2586 days)
Posts: 13
Joined: 06-10-2015


Message 355 of 393 (759681)
06-14-2015 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 353 by Admin
06-13-2015 8:17 AM


Re: Moderator Request
Percy writes:
I see that GaryG is a Planet Source Code Superior Coding contest winner, but that website is not currently active. Maybe GaryG can provide a link to the source code that won the contest.
Planet Source Code's server is having major problems staying online. Technicians are working on it again.
This is the software. As with the PSC software it includes a Theory of Operation that had to include (an earlier text of) the Theory of Intelligent Design. The only difference is it also includes a compiled program for those who do not have a Visual Basic compiler. PSC coders would already have VB so a compiled program was not needed with the source code:
Intelligence Generator and Detector: Intelligence Design Lab
This is a screen save from 2011:

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Replies to this message:
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