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Author Topic:   Jihadists must die, --- but our real enemies are the Qur’an and Bible.
mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 286 of 375 (760036)
06-16-2015 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Theodoric
06-16-2015 9:53 PM


So not going to address the meat of my post at all?
But, I did.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Theodoric, posted 06-16-2015 9:53 PM Theodoric has not replied

mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 287 of 375 (760037)
06-16-2015 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by GDR
06-16-2015 9:02 PM


Simply put again, it is loving, truthful, just, and kind hearts that make us right with God
That's good, I guess. Since I fit the above description ... I'll be going to heaven, if there is one, even though I don't believe in it. Another one of those conundrums.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by GDR, posted 06-16-2015 9:02 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 06-17-2015 9:05 AM mikechell has replied
 Message 291 by GDR, posted 06-17-2015 1:36 PM mikechell has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 288 of 375 (760060)
06-17-2015 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by mikechell
06-16-2015 11:10 PM


We Have Met The Enemy & He Is Us
We discuss spirituality and religion a lot here at this forum, mike. I have learned a lot about myself through debates here. Rarely if ever do I find many people who agree with what I say, but I have stayed and traded verbal jabs and exchanged human wisdom (or the lack thereof,on my part) with the best of them.
It used to annoy me when people couldn't see my well thought out arguments. I was indeed a legend in my own mind. Slowly, however, i learned to take a (devils advocate) approach and pretend that I was supporting their arguments against myself. It worked, and my arguments are better than they used to be---although very few still agree with me.
Politics is like that---congressional squabbling annoys me because we the people pay these people to bicker...hoping that our candidate will have more hot air than the opponents.
To quote Mark Twain---
quote:
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." —Mark Twain
Our real enemies are the cobwebs within our own thinking.
Yes, I believe God exists and would exist even if no human on earth believed in Him. Granted I will admit that I am biased.
The jury is still out on whether the human race will survive forever (or a reasonable slice of time) or whether we will be a brief explosion in the grand universal scheme.
Your quote says "evidence over faith ... observation over theory.
If humans become extinct, Who will observe our demise?
Moreso, will there be any evidence for said observer?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by mikechell, posted 06-16-2015 11:10 PM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by mikechell, posted 06-17-2015 9:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 375 (760063)
06-17-2015 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
06-17-2015 9:05 AM


Re: We Have Met The Enemy & He Is Us
Nice little dissertation, Phat.
Yeah ... I don't take much personally. I don't trust ANYONE in D.C., republican or democrat (but especially democrats) because they are all career politicians and that means "crooked".
Yes, I believe God exists and would exist even if no human on earth believed in Him.
Wow! There are so many things "off" about that statement. It's a great statement, because it allows Evolution as a side effect of Creation and we he probably doesn't even know we popped into being within his light show.
If humans become extinct, Who will observe our demise?
Perhaps another evolved intelligent species.
Moreso, will there be any evidence for said observer?
Only if they get here before the evolving planet destroys all signs of our existence. The only way we will "leave a mark" on the universe is if we overcome our petty squabbles and continue the evolution of man. If we can continue to expand our knowledge, figure how to expand our territory beyond our own solar system, then we will (or humanoids will) be part of the universe forever.
Edited by mikechell, : No reason given.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 06-17-2015 9:05 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 290 of 375 (760073)
06-17-2015 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by GDR
06-16-2015 9:26 PM


GDR
You ignore the morality of what you believe to try to profit from the murder of an innocent man.
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.
Follow your brand of God into hell, where your kind of morals belong.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by GDR, posted 06-16-2015 9:26 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by mikechell, posted 06-17-2015 1:37 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 293 by GDR, posted 06-17-2015 1:41 PM Greatest I am has not replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 291 of 375 (760079)
06-17-2015 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by mikechell
06-16-2015 11:10 PM


GDR writes:
Simply put again, it is loving, truthful, just, and kind hearts that make us right with God
mikechell writes:
That's good, I guess. Since I fit the above description ... I'll be going to heaven, if there is one, even though I don't believe in it.
I was going to ask you to put in a good word for me when you get there but then I remembered another requirement that is in my signature. You have to be humble...sorry about that.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by mikechell, posted 06-16-2015 11:10 PM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by mikechell, posted 06-17-2015 4:01 PM GDR has not replied

mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 292 of 375 (760080)
06-17-2015 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Greatest I am
06-17-2015 12:29 PM


GIA ... I am confused by your statements.
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.
... do you believe or don't you ... I can't tell.
Is GDR's brand of religion different from yours, or is it just that he believes?

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Greatest I am, posted 06-17-2015 12:29 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 10:57 AM mikechell has replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 293 of 375 (760081)
06-17-2015 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Greatest I am
06-17-2015 12:29 PM


GIA writes:
You ignore the morality of what you believe to try to profit from the murder of an innocent man.
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.
Follow your brand of God into hell, where your kind of morals belong.
Aren't we the happy little diplomat.
As you just keep asserting your simplistic preconceived ideas of what it is that I believe without responding to what I actually wrote there is not a lot of point to keeping this discussion going.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Greatest I am, posted 06-17-2015 12:29 PM Greatest I am has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 294 of 375 (760089)
06-17-2015 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Greatest I am
06-16-2015 1:36 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes:
That means education of those minds to a better way of thinking and that means ending the garbage that they are learning today from their holy books.
You can't just erase everything on their hearts and minds and start over. You have to compete with what's there now. You have to offer them something better but frankly, you're offering them garbage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 1:36 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 11:00 AM ringo has replied

mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 295 of 375 (760102)
06-17-2015 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by GDR
06-17-2015 1:36 PM


I was going to ask you to put in a good word for me when you get there but then I remembered another requirement that is in my signature. You have to be humble...sorry about that.
Dag nabbit !!! I was almost there !!!

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by GDR, posted 06-17-2015 1:36 PM GDR has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 296 of 375 (760164)
06-18-2015 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Greatest I am
06-16-2015 11:25 AM


Glad I could help you learn new words.
GIA writes:
Tell us what you think creates a jihadist?
Tell us what you mean by jihadist and I will try. What makes you say stuff like "Jihadists must die, --- but our real enemies are the Qur’an and Bible."?
GIA writes:
How do they get their mind set and beliefs?
How did you get your mind set and beliefs?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 11:25 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 11:05 AM jar has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 297 of 375 (760170)
06-18-2015 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by mikechell
06-17-2015 1:37 PM


mikechell
I am not an atheist. I am a Gnostic Christian.
Said of Gnostic Christian versus Christian bible reading practices.
Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.
William Blake.
I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you. Question everything including yourself.
The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though.
You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals.
Christians call evil good while Gnostic Christians call evil, evil.
I E. Gnostic Christians think that bible God, the demiurge to us, is quite immoral for thinking that torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it is good justice. Gnostic Christians think that evil while Christians think that a good form of justice.
Which group do you think is right?
----------------------------------
mikechell
That was a short form.
If your time and interest permits, I have a longer piece that I wrote for another who asked about the same thing.
-----------------------
Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.
Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.
This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.
During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.
The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.
I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.
I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.
Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.
This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=playe...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y
Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.
Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by mikechell, posted 06-17-2015 1:37 PM mikechell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by mikechell, posted 06-18-2015 2:04 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 298 of 375 (760172)
06-18-2015 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by ringo
06-17-2015 3:20 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
ringo
I offered nothing in the way of changes but do suggest they get changes from within their own religion so I don't know what you mean by my offering garbage.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by ringo, posted 06-17-2015 3:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by ringo, posted 06-18-2015 11:59 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 299 of 375 (760173)
06-18-2015 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by jar
06-18-2015 10:01 AM


jar
I get my mind set by what I read and am told that I believe.
That is why I suggest that the Qur'an be changed as most mind sets are created the same way and the Qur'an is helping create jihadists.
Strange that you ask me to define jihadists after you arguing to protect their books all this time.
Hint. Webster's dictionary.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by jar, posted 06-18-2015 10:01 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by jar, posted 06-18-2015 11:24 AM Greatest I am has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 300 of 375 (760175)
06-18-2015 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by Greatest I am
06-18-2015 11:05 AM


Yet you never tell us what you mean by jihadist. I have already taught you that the term carries multiple meanings and shown you conclusive evidence that books do not do anything.
You yourself said "I get my mind set by what I read and am told that I believe." so is it not reasonable to think others also are influenced by the same processes, particularly the latter; "what you are told that you believe."
How are you any different than those that you say must die?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 11:05 AM Greatest I am has not replied

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