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Author Topic:   Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 788 of 1053 (760867)
06-26-2015 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 779 by Faith
06-26-2015 8:50 AM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
Actually you don't SEE evidence for that at all.
Uh ... yes we do.
Here and there you find something that sort of reminds you of such a thing and it fits with the theory so you baptize it Truth although the vast preponderance of evidence doesn't fit at all
Faith, what the fuck would you know about "the vast preponderance of evidence"? You know three things about geology and two of them are wrong.
Right, all this varied topography with its extreme highs and lows and different kinds of rock composition can simply be EXPECTED to scrunch into a slab of rock of one particular kind of sediment
NO.
That is not what geologists expect. I have told you what they expect would have occurred. And the geological record looks like they were completely right. Isn't that nice for them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 779 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 8:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 789 of 1053 (760868)
06-26-2015 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 785 by Faith
06-26-2015 10:54 AM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
Okey dokey. Mountains eh. Source of sediment for the rock slabs that represent entire worldwide landscapes with flora and fauna that last hundreds of millions of years, eh?
No, there's also marine sediment. Do I need to show you a photograph of the sea?
Now tell us where the mountains came from when all there is on the surface of the earth is the slab of rock from the previous time period
That isn't "all there is on the surface of the earth". That's all there is in the dumb fantasy world in your head.
Except of course for a "canyon" or two that was carved out of a slab deep in the earth after all the slabs were in place.
I'd love to see you try to provide a mechanism for that one, but that's not the sort of thing you do, is it? We'll just have to settle for magicwaterdidit, I guess.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 785 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 10:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 795 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 11:21 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 794 of 1053 (760875)
06-26-2015 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 791 by Faith
06-26-2015 11:12 AM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
And then those dinosaurs that roamed around on top of the previous slab of rock/ time period, ate what? Something gigantic with deep roots wouldn't you suppose: Deep enough to reach down into, say, the Permian or even deeper than that? Funny we don't find tree roots in those layers though.
I can make no sense of these ravings, except that you seem to think we don't find fossilized tree roots, which we do.
I'm just trying to understand how all those time periods supposedly with the same kind iof topography we have today, got compressed into neat flat packages of rock of particular kinds of sediment
They didn't. This is why no-one supposes that.
, and where the stuff needed to form the next landscape with similar topography could come from.
The "stuff" is called sediment. You must have heard of it. Now look at that picture I showed you.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 791 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 11:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 796 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 11:24 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 811 of 1053 (760932)
06-26-2015 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 803 by Faith
06-26-2015 11:42 AM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
We're trying to explain how anything like the entire current surface of the earth, massively eroded massive geological structures of various kinds of rocks and sediments, could ever have existed for hundreds of millions of years of previous time periods, how the mountains grew up and then collapsed down and valleys filled in until the whole shebang wrapped up into a slab of rock that spanned an entire continent, and how that scenario got repeated time and time again to create the entire Geologic Column and you think your seismic picture says anything at all about that?
If you want to know about historical geology, here's a textbook on historical geology.
ABE: Oh, plus the fact that today's erosion cuts deeply into the previous "time periods" for the first time in history.
That's not a fact, Faith. That's something you made up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 803 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 11:42 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 812 of 1053 (760933)
06-26-2015 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 795 by Faith
06-26-2015 11:21 AM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
The underground canyon needs a special mechanism? How about the same kind of mechanism that carved the Grand Canyon
The Grand Canyon isn't underground.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 795 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 11:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 813 of 1053 (760934)
06-26-2015 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 796 by Faith
06-26-2015 11:24 AM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
It's easy to say No No No we don't believe that, but how about you describe exactly how it DID happen then? How do you get a new topographically varied landscape to form on top of a slab of rock that represents the previous supposedly topograqphically varied landscape?
ABE: Remember we're talking CONTINENT-SPANNING slabs of rock here. Doesn't leave a lot of SPACE, let alone material, for future landscape-building.
Come on give it your best Rube Goldberg shot.
Faith, geologists are only required to provide a mechanism for stuff that actually happened, not for shit that you made up in your head. The shit you made up in your head is inexplicable. I can't explain how your made-up shit could happen in the real world. I can't even explain how it got into your head, though I suspect the mechanism involves gross stupidity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 796 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 11:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 814 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 4:23 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 816 of 1053 (760950)
06-26-2015 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 814 by Faith
06-26-2015 4:23 PM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
Faith, post #805 writes:
There is no such thing as Geological Time.
Faith, post #814 writes:
Denial works for you, doesn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 814 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 4:23 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 818 of 1053 (760952)
06-26-2015 5:35 PM


A Picture Book For Faith. See Spot Run. Run Spot, Run.
Here is a landscape. Here are some mountains. Here is a river.
As time passes, the mountains will erode, becoming smaller and less pointy, and sediment will be deposited between them. This process tends to flatten out the plain, but it will not fill in the river, because as it flows it bears away sediment. Indeed, the river deepens its bed, forming a canyon.
At no point is the landscape compressed into a slab of rock, because this is crazy shit that you've made up in your head.
Next there is a marine transgression. Now the mountains are islands.
At no point is the landscape compressed into a slab of rock, because this is crazy shit that you've made up in your head.
Marine sediment, in the form of let's say carbonates covers the new sea floor.
At no point is the landscape compressed into a slab of rock, because this is crazy shit that you've made up in your head.
The sea regresses once more.
At no point is the landscape compressed into a slab of rock, because this is crazy shit that you've made up in your head.
The mountains continue to erode, and new drainage patterns form.
At no point is the landscape compressed into a slab of rock, because this is crazy shit that you've made up in your head.
Next, for a bit of variety, let's have a volcano. This builds itself up out of lava flows, and covers the surrounding landscape in layers of volcanic ash as it does so.
At no point is the landscape compressed into a slab of rock, because this is crazy shit that you've made up in your head.
And so it goes: one ordinary geological process succeeds another. At no point is the landscape compressed into a slab of rock, because this is crazy shit that you've made up in your head. And also at no point does an invisible genocidal lunatic who lives in the sky innundate the entire earth with hyperintelligent magic water that uses its vast watery intelligence and its magical watery powers to fake the geology of the world in such a way as to give the Earth the appearance of age, 'cos that's not the sort of thing that happens either.
Oh, and one more thing. I forget whether I've mentioned it, but at no point is the landscape compressed into a slab of rock, because this is crazy shit that you've made up in your head.
If you ever manage to understand this post, maybe it'll be time for you to move on to your very first chapter book.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 823 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 6:37 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 824 of 1053 (760962)
06-26-2015 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 823 by Faith
06-26-2015 6:37 PM


Re: A Picture Book For Faith. See Spot Run. Run Spot, Run.
Nowhere in that post, or your book, do you explain how the strata formed ...
Have a look at the pictures in my post. You see those strata of sediment? Now look at the text of my post. You see how I explain how they formed?
Funny you skirt around it as you do.
Funny how you managed to ignore the entire content of my post.
Eroding mountains filling in a river valley has to be some kind of joke.
The crazy shit in your head is indeed a joke. Whereas what I wrote was "the mountains will erode [...] and sediment will be deposited between them. This process tends to flatten out the plain, but it will not fill in the river".
Do you understand the difference between a thing happening, and a thing not happening? Or do I have to explain that to you too?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 6:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 825 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 7:01 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 826 of 1053 (760965)
06-26-2015 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 825 by Faith
06-26-2015 7:01 PM


Re: A Picture Book For Faith. See Spot Run. Run Spot, Run.
That's a pathetic joke. The strata span entire continents and you've got them building up in a river valley and even leaving the landscape intact around them.
The crazy shit in your head is indeed a pathetic joke, but it obviously bears no relation to anything I wrote or drew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 825 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 7:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 833 of 1053 (760982)
06-26-2015 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 828 by edge
06-26-2015 8:37 PM


Re: A Picture Book For Faith. See Spot Run. Run Spot, Run.
Please give an example of such a formation that spans a continent.
Faith's not as wrong as she usually is, because you can get something close to this during a major marine transgression. For example, halfway through the Ordovician much of North America was covered by a shallow sea, except in the east, where the Taconic Highlands (now, much reduced, the Appalachian mountains) formed an island chain. Now, obviously nothing was deposited on the Taconic Highlands, which were an erosional environment. And, as you would expect, in the area to the west of the Taconic Highlands deposition was dominated by sediment eroded off the Highlands. But then west of that you do have vast areas where carbonates were deposited, which is just what you'd expect in a warm shallow sea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 828 by edge, posted 06-26-2015 8:37 PM edge has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 838 of 1053 (761004)
06-27-2015 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 837 by Faith
06-27-2015 2:55 AM


Re: A Picture Book For Faith. See Spot Run. Run Spot, Run.
I have added some to my topic proposal in answer to Dr. A's insulting and ridiculous explanation of how strata form.
Insulting and ridiculous? Yes indeed. The idea that sediment is deposited by the processes which we can observe depositing sediment is not just a grotesque error in logic but an outrageous assault on all that is good, decent and true.
I really prefer to use casual concepts in discussing these things, we shouldn't have to be prissily scientific about everything ...
Fortunately you are at little risk of that.
I don't see a role for me on this thread though.
How about as a warning and example to others?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 837 by Faith, posted 06-27-2015 2:55 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 847 of 1053 (761049)
06-27-2015 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 844 by Faith
06-27-2015 10:41 AM


There is so much evidence that the strata deposited continuously over a short period of time such very occasional internal features could not have been on the surface long enough to explain their dimensions.
Of course. True things can't be true if they contradict your beliefs. If only geologists knew that, then they too would attribute the geological record to the magical activities of a malevolent invisible loony who lives in the sky, like sensible people do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 844 by Faith, posted 06-27-2015 10:41 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 852 of 1053 (761057)
06-27-2015 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 849 by Faith
06-27-2015 2:31 PM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
They were looking in the wrong place.
They looked in the geological record instead of in Faith's imagination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 849 by Faith, posted 06-27-2015 2:31 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 856 of 1053 (761062)
06-27-2015 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 855 by ThinAirDesigns
06-27-2015 2:41 PM


Re: Geologic Sequencing
* blushes *
You're very welcome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 855 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 06-27-2015 2:41 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

  
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