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Author Topic:   Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!!
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5983
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 931 of 971 (895288)
06-20-2022 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 930 by nwr
06-20-2022 4:14 PM


Re: Texas Toast
So then he's pissed off for absolutely no reason?
And his point is ... ?

This message is a reply to:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 258 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 932 of 971 (895292)
06-20-2022 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 930 by nwr
06-20-2022 4:14 PM


Re: Texas Toast
They recently voted out their previous government
Isn't that the purest form of "screaming blue bloody murder"? Is the US about to "scream red bloody murder"?

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 933 of 971 (895296)
06-20-2022 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 928 by Dredge
06-20-2022 1:21 PM


Re: Texas Toast
Ignorant troll.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 934 of 971 (895307)
06-21-2022 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 928 by Dredge
06-20-2022 1:21 PM


Re: Texas Toast
Dredge writes:
If "global warming" were causing alarming rises in sea levels, two countries especially would be screaming blue bloody murder - the Netherlands and Bangladesh. But what do we hear from them? Sweet bugger-all.
You're not thinking straight.
1. The Netherlands have been dealing with sea levels for centuries. They're waaaaaay ahead of us in the game. Instead of waiting for them to whine about it you should be looking to them for solutions.
2. Bangladesh is a poor country. It can't afford to do anything about rising sea levels. All you're likely to hear from them is about more deaths.
3. I live more than a thousand miles from the ocean at an altitude of about 1800 feet. We grow a lot of wheat and canola around here and we have a small population so we export most of it. If the oceans rise by just a couple of feet, the port facilities in Vancouver will require a lot of rebuilding, which will cost billions. That will take a big bite out of our wheat and canola revenues.
Everybody ie affected, if not directly, then indirectly.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 258 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 935 of 971 (895309)
06-21-2022 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 934 by ringo
06-21-2022 11:59 AM


Re: Texas Toast
see my Message 929

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8612
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 936 of 971 (895314)
06-21-2022 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 928 by Dredge
06-20-2022 1:21 PM


Re: Texas Toast
If "global warming" were causing alarming rises in sea levels ...
Again, open ignorant mouth, insert stupid catholic lies.
A few minutes doing any research would have answered your intellectually vacuous question. But, instead, you just bluster through like you think you know something. Just another inane lie from the catholic dunce.
You have got to be such an embarrassment to your masters, Satan and that other guy ... the one nailed to the tree, the one you love so much you ignore everything he says. That Jesus fiction.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8612
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 937 of 971 (912753)
09-28-2023 5:02 PM


Doomsayers Are Bothersome.
Doomsayers are bothersome to the point of boredom. I know. I’m one of them. But I’m going to give you even more pessimism to go with your growing sense of existential dread.
We can solve the carbon capture problem and make great mitigations in curbing the worst, and indeed improving beyond the present, impacts of global climate change. Our physics shows us the energy budgets involved to accomplish various levels of CO2 scrubbing needed to achieve targeted levels. Thermodynamics says it can be done. Barely.
What it will take to get there (i.e., humanity) is not promising. We seem well on the path of the scenarios that lead to the kinds of disruptions scientists and humanitarians have been warning about. The kind that eventually lead to humanities extinction along with the rest of mammalia. Happy Thoughts.
Yet, with some major changes in politics, the physics says it can be done. Here is the science side of these extremes. His heart doesn’t bleed as much as some might think. In exploring these extremes, we learn a great deal about where we are in the actual reality.
Scrubbers. That could do it. That can save us. But won’t. Physics and humanity don’t always get along. Problem is physics always wins. Humans lose.
Frankly, I’m ready for us humans and our scrubbers to leave the scene, as it appears we will eventually, and let the trees fix the problem.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8612
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 938 of 971 (914649)
01-27-2024 8:37 PM


More Doom And Gloom
I recognize some chafe at my climate change gloom-and-doom. But I got more for you.
YouTube video by Sabine Hossenfelder. Good rep. Good science. Skeptic. She may be worth listening to.
Somewhere in her outlook she mentions that humans don’t go extinct because there’s just too many of us. And she mentions that the infrastructure would come through the “worst of it”.
Why she stopped her extrapolation the way she did I couldn’t guess. There is no “worst” of it. Things only get worse from whatever moment her thinking stops.
Still, the girl has a known skeptical streak. For her to come out so forcefully on our near future like this is … heart-rending. If you watch you will see her list of the woes that await us in the next 20 years. The usual suspects we’ve been talking about for decades. Crop failure, famine, drought, heat waves, mass migration, political tensions, pandemics.
The lady is an optimist. Like our projections of CO2 in the past, we can expect each of these things to be much worse than we expect.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
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ChemEngineer
Junior Member
Posts: 18
From: Irvine CA 92606
Joined: 03-10-2024


Message 939 of 971 (917235)
03-27-2024 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 938 by AZPaul3
01-27-2024 8:37 PM


Re: More Doom And Gloom
Marc9000 wrote: I can agree with you there, 2.5 degrees in 250 years, NOTHING since 1997. I'm not alone in deciding there is no problem.
Amen, brother.
It would be IMPOSSIBLE for thousands of scientists to write books, publish papers and videos all of which provide abundant evidence contrary to the cult of liars and "scientists" who have been exaggeratingly called "97%" if the AGW were actual. Clearly it is not.
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. - Daniel J Boorstin, historian, professor, attorney, and writer; 12th librarian of the U.S. Congress
Why Scientists Disagree
About Global Warming
The NIPCC Report
on Scientific Consensus
Craig D. Idso, Robert M. Carter, S. Fred Singer
NIPCC
Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change
(110 Pages Book)
xix
Key Findings
Key findings of this book include the following:
No Consensus
# The most important fact about climate science, often overlooked, is that
scientists disagree about the environmental impacts of the combustion
of fossil fuels on the global climate.
# The articles and surveys most commonly cited as showing support for
a “scientific consensus” in favor of the catastrophic man-made global
warming hypothesis are without exception methodologically flawed
and often deliberately misleading.
# There is no survey or study showing “consensus” on the most important
scientific issues in the climate change debate.
# Extensive survey data show deep disagreement among scientists on
scientific issues that must be resolved before the man-made global
warming hypothesis can be validated. Many prominent experts and
probably most working scientists disagree with the claims made by the
United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).
Why Scientists Disagree
# Climate is an interdisciplinary subject requiring insights from many
fields of study. Very few scholars have mastery of more than one or
two of these disciplines.
# Fundamental uncertainties arise from insufficient observational
evidence, disagreements over how to interpret data, and how to set the
parameters of models.
xix
xx WHY SCIENTISTS DISAGREE ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING
# IPCC, created to find and disseminate research finding a human impact
on global climate, is not a credible source. It is agenda-driven, a
political rather than scientific body, and some allege it is corrupt.
# Climate scientists, like all humans, can be biased. Origins of bias
include careerism, grant-seeking, political views, and confirmation bias.
Scientific Method vs. Political Science
# The hypothesis implicit in all IPCC writings, though rarely explicitly
stated, is that dangerous global warming is resulting, or will result, from
human-related greenhouse gas emissions.
# The null hypothesis is that currently observed changes in global climate
indices and the physical environment, as well as current changes in
animal and plant characteristics, are the result of natural variability.
# In contradiction of the scientific method, IPCC assumes its implicit
hypothesis is correct and that its only duty is to collect evidence and
make plausible arguments in the hypothesis’s favor.
Flawed Projections
# IPCC and virtually all the governments of the world depend on global
climate models (GCMs) to forecast the effects of human-related
greenhouse gas emissions on the climate.
# GCMs systematically over-estimate the sensitivity of climate to carbon
dioxide (CO2), many known forcings and feedbacks are poorly
modeled, and modelers exclude forcings and feedbacks that run counter
to their mission to find a human influence on climate.
# NIPCC estimates a doubling of CO 2 from pre-industrial levels (from
280 to 560 ppm) would likely produce a temperature forcing of 3.7
Wm-2 in the lower atmosphere, for about ~1°C of prima facie warming.
# Four specific forecasts made by GCMs have been falsified by
real-world data from a wide variety of sources. In particular, there has
been no global warming for some 18 years.
xxi
KEY FINDINGS
False Postulates
# Neither the rate nor the magnitude of the reported late twentieth century
surface warming (1979–2000) lay outside normal natural variability.
# The late twentieth century warm peak was of no greater magnitude than
previous peaks caused entirely by natural forcings and feedbacks.
# Historically, increases in atmospheric CO2 followed increases in
temperature, they did not precede them. Therefore, CO2 levels could not
have forced temperatures to rise.
# Solar forcings are not too small to explain twentieth century warming.
In fact, their effect could be equal to or greater than the effect of CO2
in the atmosphere.
# A warming of 2°C or more during the twenty-first century would
probably not be harmful, on balance, because many areas of the world
would benefit from or adjust to climate change.
Unreliable Circumstantial Evidence
# Melting of Arctic sea ice and polar icecaps is not occurring at
“unnatural” rates and does not constitute evidence of a human impact
on the climate.
# Best available data show sea-level rise is not accelerating. Local and
regional sea levels continue to exhibit typical natural variability – in
some places rising and in others falling.
# The link between warming and drought is weak, and by some measures
drought decreased over the twentieth century. Changes in the
hydrosphere of this type are regionally highly variable and show a
closer correlation with multidecadal climate rhythmicity than they do
with global temperature.
# No convincing relationship has been established between warming over
the past 100 years and increases in extreme weather events.
xxii WHY SCIENTISTS DISAGREE ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING
Meteorological science suggests just the opposite: A warmer world will
see milder weather patterns.
# No evidence exists that current changes in Arctic permafrost are other
than natural or are likely to cause a climate catastrophe by releasing
methane into the atmosphere.
Policy Implications
# Rather than rely exclusively on IPCC for scientific advice,
policymakers should seek out advice from independent, nongovernment
organizations and scientists who are free of financial and political
conflicts of interest.
# Individual nations should take charge of setting their own climate
policies based upon the hazards that apply to their particular geography,
geology, weather, and culture.
# Rather than invest scarce world resources in a quixotic campaign based
on politicized and unreliable science, world leaders would do well to
turn their attention to the real problems their people and their planet face.
Nov 27, 2023
John Clauser, is a theoretical and experimental physicist who cheerfully calls himself a “climate change denialist.” A graduate of Cal Tech and Columbia University, in 2022 he received the Nobel Prize in Physics.
Over 1800 Scientists Have Signed the Declaration There is No Climate Emergency

This message is a reply to:
 Message 938 by AZPaul3, posted 01-27-2024 8:37 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 943 by Admin, posted 03-28-2024 10:31 AM ChemEngineer has not replied
 Message 944 by Taq, posted 03-28-2024 10:43 AM ChemEngineer has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8612
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 940 of 971 (917237)
03-27-2024 9:35 PM


Fake AI Makes Post?
Hit and run religionist throwing sand in peoples faces or die-hard loony of the majikal design camp?
We’ve been told the only proper response to some ideas is ridicule and this submission seems most deserving. But this is devoid of the most basic intellect required to operate a human being. I used to like this kind of crap if only for the insult value, but this … this is too far into humanity’s stupidity cesspool to be real.
This has got to be an AI specifically guided to be so dumb. Nothing actually there.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 941 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-27-2024 9:39 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 942 by Omnivorous, posted 03-28-2024 8:16 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4555
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(3)
Message 941 of 971 (917238)
03-27-2024 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 940 by AZPaul3
03-27-2024 9:35 PM


Re: Fake AI Makes Post?
die-hard loony of the majikal design camp?
I'll take die-hard loony for 5 points.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 942 of 971 (917243)
03-28-2024 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 940 by AZPaul3
03-27-2024 9:35 PM


Re: Fake AI Makes Post?
AZPaul3 writes:
This has got to be an AI specifically guided to be so dumb. Nothing actually there.
Yes, this is an example of the proliferating Artificial Rightwing Stupidity Engine (ARSE).
I considered direct replies. But just because the ARSE shat on my den floor doesn't mean I have to paddle my fingers in it.
Marc, K.Rose, and now ChemEngineer are simply flooding the zone with their ARSE product. It is a black hole. Replies, whether outraged or reasoned, are fuel that makes the ARSE run hotter.
The ARSE is a tactical asset. While we debate whether they are fools or knaves, their allies pack the judge-shopped 5th Court of Appeals to SCOTUS pipeline to refine their fascist blueprint -- if their suit passes muster with a majority of SCOTUS justices, well and good; if not, SCOTUS Thomas can be relied on for helpful hints at more fully formed stools.
Sooner or later, perhaps on a krystal clear night, we will face this shit in the streets.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 940 by AZPaul3, posted 03-27-2024 9:35 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 943 of 971 (917247)
03-28-2024 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 939 by ChemEngineer
03-27-2024 8:54 PM


Re: More Doom And Gloom
Your post appears to be a lengthy and incredibly poorly formatted copy-n-paste from Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming. The Forum Guidelines state:
  1. Avoid lengthy cut-n-pastes. Introduce the point in your own words and provide a link to your source as a reference. If your source is not on-line you may contact the Site Administrator to have it made available on-line.
Please follow the Forum Guidelines. Moderators have a variety of approaches for encouraging members to follow the Forum Guidelines.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


(3)
Message 944 of 971 (917250)
03-28-2024 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 939 by ChemEngineer
03-27-2024 8:54 PM


Re: More Doom And Gloom
Temperature is still going up, despite the lies coming from the deniers.
quote:
Did global warming stop in 1998?
No, but thanks to natural variability, volcanic eruptions, and relatively low solar activity, the rate of average global surface warming from 1998-2012 was slower than it had been for two to three decades leading up to it.
How much slower depends on the fine print: which global temperature dataset you look at, whether it includes the Arctic, and the exact time periods you compare. Regardless, the big picture of long-term global warming remained unchanged.
Those who deny the scientific evidence of human-caused global warming turned the slowdown into a slogan: “Global warming stopped in 1998.” In scientific journals and assessment reports, climate experts described the episode as a “pause” or “hiatus” in the previous decades’ rapid warming: they knew it wouldn’t last.
Not only was 1998-2012 the warmest 15-year period on record at the time, but greenhouse gases continued to climb to new record highs, and other climate indicators continued to show the impacts of long-term, global-scale warming: subsurface ocean heating, global sea level rise, the melting of glaciers and ice sheets, and record-low Arctic sea ice extent.
Did global warming stop in 1998? | NOAA Climate.gov
And a more recent dataset:
And just to add a bit more, historic CO2 levels over the last few glaciation cycles:
Natural levels of CO2 bounce between 180 and 300 ppm. The graph above is a bit old since it only shows a modern level of 380 ppm. As of today, we are at 420 ppm.
The current atmosphere has a 40% excess of CO2, a greenhouse gas. In fact, we've known about how CO2 acts as a greenhouse gas since the late 1800's. Guess what happens when you increase the concentration of a greenhouse gas in a planet's atmosphere? You trap more heat. Surely a user with the name of ChemEngineer knows this (or not, who knows).

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22676
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 945 of 971 (917255)
03-29-2024 8:08 AM


Global Warming is Affecting Time
According to this article, global warming is affecting Earth's rotation and may cause the addition of the leap second to be delayed from 2026 until 2029: The Earth's rotation is starting to interfere with time and experts are concerned.
The melting ice caps are responsible. Somehow they're contributing to a decrease in angular momentum of the Earth's liquid core, and due to conservation of momentum that translates into an increase in angular momentum of Earth's solid portion. I would have liked to understand this better, but the article doesn't go into detail, and at one point I think the article mistakenly says "orbit" where it meant "rotation." It was perhaps written in haste or by someone with insufficient background.
So to you climate change deniers out there: Don't worry about any stupid old leap second. It's all bunk.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 946 by Taq, posted 03-29-2024 10:55 AM Percy has not replied
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