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Author Topic:   why does baking soda and vinegar unclog the drain?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 16 of 30 (745580)
12-24-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taq
12-24-2014 1:02 PM


Taz writes:
It isn't solidified.
It is in my sink. And every drain I've ever unblocked.
It is liquid body oil in an amalgam of soap waxes and deposited minerals.
You forgot tea leaves, coffee grains, hair, carrot peel and dirt.
Bicarb does saponify oils, just like any base will.
Maybe, but it'll be slow and ineffectual compared to caustic soda - which is, as you guessed, and I'd already pointed out, is what constitutes old fashioned drain cleaner.
You will notice that the method for unclogging drains with sodium bicarb is to use boiling hot water and sodium bicarb for 15 minutes, THEN add the vinegar. The heat will speed up the saponification reaction.
Which is pretty much exactly what I said.
The bubbling from the vinegar will help to break off the already loosened deposits in the pipe.
Maybe. But really the boilng water is doing all the heavy lifting.
But why piss about? Caustic soda is cheap and readily available, it does the job without all the hassle of boiling water - it produces its own heat - and is a really strong base. I thought it unpleasant to mention it earlier, but it's so good at breaking down fat that it's used in the industrial production of soap - the Nazis used it to for exactly that purpose but with human fat. Not baking soda.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Taq, posted 12-24-2014 1:02 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Taq, posted 12-24-2014 2:08 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 01-02-2015 11:31 AM Tangle has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9971
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 17 of 30 (745582)
12-24-2014 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tangle
12-24-2014 1:23 PM


It is in my sink. And every drain I've ever unblocked.
The deposits are solid, but the oils that make them up are not. The fact that they are water insoluble is what keeps the deposit in place. When baking soda saponifies those oils into soluble soaps, the is easier to break up and remove.
Maybe, but it'll be slow and ineffectual compared to caustic soda - which is, as you guessed, and I'd already pointed out, is what constitutes old fashioned drain cleaner.
By adding heat to the reaction you can increase the activity of bicarb. You are probably right with respect to the relative effectiveness of bicarb and caustic soda. However, people were wondering about the chemistry of bicarb and clogs, so that is what I was explaining.
But why piss about? Caustic soda is cheap and readily available, it does the job without all the hassle of boiling water - it produces its own heat - and is a really strong base. I thought it unpleasant to mention it earlier, but it's so good at breaking down fat that it's used in the industrial production of soap - the Nazis used it to for exactly that purpose but with human fat. Not baking soda.
The only concern I would have is safety. People may not realize how hot things can get when you add caustic soda to water, or how corrosive it can be. At least baking soda removes the idiot factor, even if it is less effective.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2014 1:23 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2014 4:02 PM Taq has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 18 of 30 (745594)
12-24-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taq
12-24-2014 2:08 PM


Taz writes:
At least baking soda removes the idiot factor, even if it is less effective.
I'm doubting it would actually have any real effect on a real life blockage. I would be interesting to test it irl.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Taq, posted 12-24-2014 2:08 PM Taq has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 30 (745595)
12-24-2014 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taq
12-24-2014 1:02 PM


In fact, I would suspect that most drain uncloggers are made with strong bases such as sodium hydroxide.
When I was a kid I used to augment the weak chemistry sets I got for Christmas with household chemicals including drain cleaners, ammonia solutions, bleach, etc.
Drano is sodium hydroxide with little bits of aluminum it it. The reaction when water is added is to generate intense heat and a vigorous gas release. I'm sure that the heat and the alkalinity worked on the clog.
On the other hand, there are some liquid drain cleaners that consist of a very strong solution of sulfuric acid and not much of anything else. Sulfuric acid also releases lots of heat when added to water. The acid also dissolves fat and grease. Of course you are introducing some pretty toxic stuff into your water system.
Mixing sulfuric acid with drano is a bloody stupid idea. As a kid I always wondered what would happen if I poured liquid drain clear into a can of drano, but I never got the nerve to do it.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Taq, posted 12-24-2014 1:02 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2014 6:49 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 20 of 30 (745608)
12-24-2014 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by NoNukes
12-24-2014 4:16 PM


NoNukes writes:
Mixing sulfuric acid with drano is a bloody stupid idea.
No - it's a bloody interesting idea. I'm removing my car battery as I type.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by NoNukes, posted 12-24-2014 4:16 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 12-24-2014 8:37 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 22 by NoNukes, posted 12-24-2014 8:44 PM Tangle has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 21 of 30 (745610)
12-24-2014 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Tangle
12-24-2014 6:49 PM


sulfuric acid can eat through your drain.
I used to work for a town that had a battery recycling business that was just pouring the battery acid down the drain instead of processing it, and the town discovered that they had miles of sewers with no bottoms.
Not something to play with.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2014 6:49 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by NoNukes, posted 12-24-2014 8:47 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 30 (745611)
12-24-2014 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Tangle
12-24-2014 6:49 PM


No - it's a bloody interesting idea. I'm removing my car battery as I type.
Uh, okay. Please take some video and have a family member post it afterwards.
ABE:
Perhaps my post was irresponsible. The biggest issue with playing around with sodium hydroxide is the chance of getting the stuff on your skin and eyes. Permanent damage can be done to the eyes in particular with even small contact with the stuff. Not stuff to play around with without proper safeguards.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2014 6:49 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Tangle, posted 12-25-2014 4:40 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 30 (745612)
12-24-2014 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
12-24-2014 8:37 PM


battery recycling business that was just pouring the battery acid down the drain
Lol!
Well at least they were keeping some of the lead out of the environment.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 12-24-2014 8:37 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 24 of 30 (745627)
12-25-2014 4:40 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by NoNukes
12-24-2014 8:44 PM


NoNukes writes:
Perhaps my post was irresponsible. The biggest issue with playing around with sodium hydroxide is the chance of getting the stuff on your skin and eyes. Permanent damage can be done to the eyes in particular with even small contact with the stuff. Not stuff to play around with without proper safeguards.
Ah, bless you! I know all about how acids and alkalis react and exactly how dangerous caustic soda is. I've messed with them all - and worse - as a kid. I'd say more but it would probably result in a visit from the security services.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by NoNukes, posted 12-24-2014 8:44 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by NoNukes, posted 12-25-2014 12:15 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 455 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 25 of 30 (745638)
12-25-2014 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Taz
12-23-2014 4:12 PM


It's like a membrane. A snake will go right through and everything seems fine. But as soon as you pull the snake out, the membrane closes itself back up.
Are you sure you want to mess with this? It could be abiogenesis in action. I smell a Nobel just around the corner!
OTOH, it could start crawling out of the drains and incorporating all living flesh into its unstoppable blob-like spreading mass. So maybe you should proceed with plan A.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Taz, posted 12-23-2014 4:12 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Taz, posted 01-01-2015 6:45 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 30 (745643)
12-25-2014 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Tangle
12-25-2014 4:40 AM


'd say more but it would probably result in a visit from the security services.
I figured you'd be okay. I was more worried about others following your example and cracking open their car batteries over a sink full of Drano.
Have at it bro!

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Tangle, posted 12-25-2014 4:40 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 27 of 30 (746073)
01-01-2015 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Capt Stormfield
12-25-2014 11:32 AM


Too late. I battled with that creature for 3 days. My sulfuric acid finally won out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Capt Stormfield, posted 12-25-2014 11:32 AM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 28 of 30 (746098)
01-02-2015 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tangle
12-24-2014 1:23 PM


Tangle writes:
You forgot tea leaves, coffee grains, hair, carrot peel and dirt.
My question is: How are you getting food and hair in the same drain?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2014 1:23 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Tangle, posted 01-02-2015 11:39 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 30 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-02-2015 12:07 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 29 of 30 (746099)
01-02-2015 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
01-02-2015 11:31 AM


Ringo writes:
My question is: How are you getting food and hair in the same drain?
Persistence, flexibility and ingenuity.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 01-02-2015 11:31 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 30 of 30 (746107)
01-02-2015 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
01-02-2015 11:31 AM


My question is: How are you getting food and hair in the same drain?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 01-02-2015 11:31 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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