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Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Are you Racist? Homophobic? etc | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
My problem is that from all the descriptions of the incident with Michael Brown I couldn't, and can't, see racism on the part of Darren Wilson. Now the new investigation has brought up some racist communications in the police department. Well, that's good evidence of a general trend at least. All I want is evidence. Your stories are good evidence I think, of more racism than I'm in a position to be aware of. But the reports of these police incidents that are behind all the protests failed to produce any evidence of racism to my mind. So the protests just hit me as unjustifiable mayhem based on nothing. Myers produces some more general evidence. It is a relief to think the protests aren't just an excuse for violence.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
But the reports of these police incidents that are behind all the protests failed to produce any evidence of racism to my mind. So the protests just hit me as unjustifiable mayhem based on nothing. That's because you think the protests were just based on those police incidents being racist. They weren't, there's a lot more to it, I explained this to you in detail:
Message 239 Message 253 Message 254 Message 310 Again, if you cannot see that the protests are being based on something larger than just those police incidents being racist, then you are never going to understand what it is about.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You really don't understand that all you've said in those posts is allegations, not evidence?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Which allegations would you like to see evidence for?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
But I'm not claiming to offer evidence sufficient to decide who's at fault in a criminal case. Are you messing with me? Could you please explain to me why you think that I am deciding who is at fault in a criminal case? I repeated explained to you that the particulars of these police incidents are not the main drive behind the Black Lives Matter protests. When I tell you that it does not matter if the cops were racist or not, you say that I have not provided evidence that they were racist. When I tell you the particulars of these cases are unimportant and its not about that, you say that I have not provided evidence that they are racist. When I tell you that the protests are from something bigger than these cases, and that you need to stop thinking about this cases as the sole cause, you say that I have not provided evidence for who is at fault in these cases. You keep saying that the Black Lives Matter protests are based on nothing. That's not true. And its important for people like you to understand what they are really based on. But whenever I try to explain it to you, all you can do is focus on the particular police incidents and the lack of evidence of racism in them. What do I have to do to get you to understand this? That its not about the particulars in those cases, its about a much bigger and broader problem. Or are you just having some fun in trolling me, or something?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I read those posts, and I read them a second time when you referenced them. They don't prove what you allege, they just allege it. You allege that it's from "something bigger," but you haven't proved this.
Perhaps you need to read them again yourself. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I read those posts, and I read them a second time when you referenced them. They don't prove what you allege, they just allege it. You allege that it's from "something bigger," but you haven't proved this. What Cat Sci has managed to show is that the people involved in the protests express larger issues than you do. At some point the question has to be why their own explanation of their motives is less credible than the ones you impute to them.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Doesn't the fact that Black Lives Matter was started in 2012, before either of Brown or Garner cases, prove that it cannot be based on those events?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Doesn't the fact that Black Lives Matter was started in 2012, before either of Brown or Garner cases, prove that it cannot be based on those events? I don't see how. I don't think I made any claims about when it started. It's a slogan alleging racism. Until the racism is proved it's just an allegation.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
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Edited by Cat Sci, : No reason given.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Bumping 'cause I can:
quote: Is this murder? Is this racism?Love your enemies!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
BUt the victim did not take the officer's taser. The video shows the officer picking it up from the groun and putting it near the body.
Is it murder?Seems to be according to the law. Is it racism. Seemingly. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I was wondering whether anyone would bring up the Hinton story. This black guy was convicted of murder and spent 30 years on death row and has been now found to be innocent. There's some very shocking things about the case - like the authorities knew that the bullets fired were not a match to the gun he was supposed to have shot with for 19 years but did not act on it. That despite it was the key evidence in the case and it was shown by independent ballistics experts. He believes that he was convicted simply because he was black and he appears to have a point.
Anthony Ray Hinton blames racism for wrongful jailing - BBC News But my main reason for bringing this up is to point to the lawyer that successfully faught this case - another black guy called Bryan Stevenson. He's an amazing guy doing work with people on death row and attempting - and succeeding - in changing some of the most iniquitous practices around the area. He says that there have been over 150 people exonerated after being sentenced to death and that a black man born in the USA this millenium has a 33% chance of being imprisoned. He's an amazing bloke and did a TED talk a while back. I challenge anybody not to be moved by what he says: Bryan Stevenson: We need to talk about an injustice | TED TalkJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Unfortunately, cases like this are all too common. Our "justice system" is more a system of injustice.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I agree the Hinton case is terribly sad and there are a lot more like his. Probably usually racist but not always. His lawyer's talk to the TED group was more about poverty than race. The REAL cause is the moral failure of the prosecutors, whatever their particular motivation in a particular case.
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