Most liberals think that religion is never the true source of a person’s bad behavior.
That isn't the case of the liberals I know. However, most liberals will point out that the kind of religion a person adopts is related to their social position. A wealthy Muslim in a western society is less likely to actually believe radical Islamic dogma than a disaffected teenager made homeless by Israeli military retaliation.
So the question isn't why 'why did that individual do action x' but 'why are toxic religious beliefs gaining traction within this society?'
And the answer isn't the specific host religion - it's usually a wider issue than that.
Now true, some 'liberals' may appear to, or actually, believe that Islam is blameless in this. I think, however, the perception exists that liberals are guilty of this because one side of the argument is saying "Islam is to blame", and the liberals are saying 'No, that's not right'. And the other side interprets this as 'Islam is blameless', rather than 'Islam is not the main culprit for bad things happening, it's just the lens through which grievances being met with vengeance are being viewed as a means to rationalise or justify otherwise unacceptable behaviour. And it really really doesn't have to be Islam. It wouldn't really be appropriate, for instance, to regard the League of Militant Atheists' actions as being 'because of atheism', even if...
Even when jihadists explicitly state their religious motivations
Yeah, the thing is - they don't just do that do they?
Marytydom videos are clearly in the language of religion, but they list temporal grievances such as the location of US military bases, western corruption of children, economic sanctions, political or military interferences, national bullying, drone strikes and so on.
So yeah. Now I know Sam knows this, as I've seen him talk about it. I'm addressing you guys though so...
If a man murders his neighbor because he wants to steal his property and doesn’t want to leave a witness, everyone accepts the killer’s account of his actions.
Unless, of course, suddenly Estonians started killing their neighbours for their property at a higher frequencies and then we have to ask ourselves - why has the Estonian culture been infected with neighbourcidal robberies?
But when he says, as every jihadist does, that he was driven by a sense of religious obligation and a yearning for Paradise, liberals insist that the search for an underlying motive must continue.
Because almost every jihadist says more than this.
quote:
"I'm doing this because the rewards, the big rewards that Allah has promised those who step on his path and Inshaallah [God willing] become martyr and the best of amongst those to me is the guarantee of Jannah [paradise] for myself and my family and those that are close to me.
"On top of this is to punish and to humiliate the Kuffar [non-believer], to teach them a lesson that they will never forget.
"It's to tell them that we Muslim people have pride, our people of Allah, the people of Islam, we are brave.
"We're not cowards. Enough is enough. We've warned you so many times get out of our lands, leave us alone, but you have persisted in trying to humiliate us, kill us and destroy us.
"Sheikh Osama [the prosecution say this means Osama Bin Laden] warned you many times to leave our lands or you will be destroyed and now the time has come for you to be destroyed and you have nothing but to expect that floods of martyr operations, volcanoes and anger and revenge and erupting among your capital and, yet, taste that what you have made us taste for a long time and now you have to bear the fruits that you have sown."
Ali is asked by a voice off-camera by way of inquiry: "What about the innocent people? Surely just because the Kuffar kill our innocent does not mean that we should, that we should kill theirs? What about this so-called 'collateral damage'? What about it?"
"You and show more care and concern for animals than you do for the Muslim Ummah [the Islamic nation].
"Those who know me, who really know me, will know that I was the happiest person that they could ever have imagined, and those that know me know that I was over the moon that Allah has given me this opportunity to lead this blessed operation.
"Thanks to God I swear by Allah, I have the desire since the age of 15/16 to participate in Jihad in the path of Allah. I had the desire since then to punish the Kuffar for the evil they are doing.
"I had the desire since then for Jannah [paradise] for the Koran. I want to go to my prophet and his companions.
"Leave us alone. Stop meddling in our affairs and we will leave you alone.
"Otherwise expect floods of martyr operations against you and we will take our revenge and anger, ripping amongst your people and scattering the people and your body parts and your people's body parts responsible for these wars and oppression decorating the streets."
--ABDULLA AHMED ALI
See? He's clearly taking this specific action being to take revenge for oppression, interference etc. He's rationalising that it needs to be done with reference to it being willed by God and part of a Holy action, absolutely.
quote:
"This is from Umar Islam, the son of Islam, to the people of the world, to let you know the reasons for this action which Inshaallah [God willing] I am going to undertake. This is an obligation on me as a Muslim to wage Jihad against the Kuffar [non-believers].
"We are doing this in order to gain the pleasure of our Lord and Allah loves us to die and kill in his path.
"Anyone who tries to deny this, then read the Koran and you will not be able to deny this because this is the words in the Koran and the words of our the messenger of Allah, prayers and peace upon him, who said them and we will not leave this path until you leave our lands, until you feel what we are feeling.
"This is revenge for the actions of the USA in the Muslim lands and their accomplices such as the British and the Jews.
"This is a warning to the non-believers that if they do not leave our lands there are many more like us and many more like me ready to strike until the law of Allah is established on this earth.
"Know that without doubt your dead are in the hellfire whilst the Muslims who died due to your attacks will be in paradise.
"Martyrdom operations upon martyrdom operations will keep on raining on these Kuffar until they release you and leave our lands.
--UMAR ISLAM
quote:
All of you so-called moderate Muslims, there's only one way in which to solve this crisis, the problems will not be solved by means of campaigning, big conferences, peaceful negotiations with the disbelievers.
"The only solution to this current situation of the Muslims is by fighting Jihad for the sake of Allah until the enemy is fully subdued and expelled from our lands.
"America and England have no cause for complaint for they are the ones who invaded and built bases in the land of the Muslims. They are the ones who supply weapons to the enemies of Islam, including the accursed Israelis.
"I'm warning these two nations and any other country who seeks a bad end, death and destruction will pass upon you like a tornado and you will not feel it.
"You will not feel any security or peace in your lands until you [stop] [we say] interfering in the affairs of the Muslim completely.
"I'm warning you today so tomorrow you have no cause for complaints. Remember, as you kill us, you will be killed and as you bomb us, you will be bombed."
"I will pray that Allah makes us successful in our actions, may he grant us Jannah [paradise].
--WAHEED ZAMAN
quote:
"Thank God Allah has accepted my duas [prayers] yeah, and provided a means to do this.
"You know, I only wish I could do this again, you know come back and do this again, and just do it again and again until people come to their senses and realise, you know, don't mess with the Muslims."
"Stop supporting the puppets and helping our enemies. If you do this, we're going to leave you alone. If you don't, you're going to feel the wrath of the Mujahedeen Inshaallah [God willing]."
--TANVEER HUSSAIN
quote:
Our religion is Islam - obedience to the one true God, Allah, and following the footsteps of the final prophet and messenger Muhammad... This is how our ethical stances are dictated.
Your democratically elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world. And your support of them makes you directly responsible, just as I am directly responsible for protecting and avenging my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Until we feel security, you will be our targets. And until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people we will not stop this fight.
---Mohammad Sidique Khan
quote:
I, the martyr comrade Jamal Sati, was born in 1962, in the small village of Kamed El-Lawz, in Western Bekaa, into a poor hardworking family. I became a member of the Lebanese Communist Party in 1978. After the aggressive occupation of the Israeli Armed Forces in 1982, my village, like the other villages and towns in South Lebanon and Western Bekaa and Rashayyah, suffered a great deal from the aggressive and terrifying treatment. When that great and mighty creature named the Lebanese National Resistance Front appeared on the battlefield, the lost hope for a free land and national dignity again nourished our desperate souls. Then I found myself among the legions of this Front, for it was my sacred duty toward my party as a communist and my country to become a member of this Front. And that’s how I joined this front early 1983. With modestly, I announce that I have participated in many successful operations in my village, Kamed El-Lawz and other neighbouring villages. I am not boasting when I am saying this as everyone knows that we work silently, but for martyrdom, I see that it is my duty to say that for all new generations and heroes.
My happiness was so great when the enemy Israeli forces were forced to retreat and withdraw from my district under the heavy blows of the Resistance ... But my happiness was even greater when the leadership of the Front agreed that I could continue participating in its operations ... and it is much more exciting that I have to perform this suicide operation
So yeah, to run with Sam's statement: But when he says, as every jihadist does, that he was driven by a sense of religious obligation and a yearning for Paradise and a sense of deep grievance against political enemies they perceive as oppressive and unstoppable through peaceful means, liberals insist that the motivations can't be simply boiled down to the religious position of the perpetrator.
That’s what is so crazy about this Islamophobia charge. The people who commit the worse offensesthe honor killers, the suicide bombers, the Taliban gunman who attempted to murder Malala Yousafzaiare absolutely clear about their motives and articulate them at every opportunity. They are motivated by Islam. Yes, other religions have problematic doctrines.
And there is the problem. We're saying that it isn't Islam that is necessarily the problem here, and that perfectly civil and nice versions of Islam exist. When you say the problem is with Islam you create a social situation wherein there is fear and distrust of Muslims. A toxic environment of distrusting and even hating a religious or ethnic group has not historically worked itself out in a healthy way by Westerners. Therefore, there is genuine reason to be concerned with the way this is being discussed. Europe is still fighting against a strong underbelly of Nationalists who would happily deport the Muslims (and more besides I'd wager, but they'd never publicly say it). Remember when a certain religious/ethnic group was being blamed for the ills of the world in an environment of growing nationalistic movements (which didn't even have to be in the majority to cause major problems)? So let's talk about things sensibly:
1) There are many factors behind the jihadist movement. Social, political, cultural, historical and so on. This is something we have some degree of control over, but decisions are difficult and fraught with the possibility of exacerbation.
2) To the extent that Islam is to blame, it should be noted that it is much the same with Hindus, Buddhists, Jews and Christians who have also engaged in this behaviour. We might hypothesize that some religions have features that make them more vulnerable to toxic variants, but we shouldn't just be looking at it with an air of superiority, but with a view to understanding how we can minimise the ability for those toxic versions to gain traction.
But Christians and Jews don’t tend to take the worst of its passages seriously
They have done in the past, they still do in some places, and they might do so more in the future. It depends on political, social and cultural factors.
Most important, in my view, is the fact that Christianity and Judaism do not have clear doctrines of jihad, nor do they promise, ad nauseam, that martyrs go straight to Paradise.
Islam's doctrine on jyhad is not clear, is not singular, and has no universal consensus. If you find yourself in a region where the idea that martyrs go to paradise and that killing yourself and random civilians is martyrdom is common, you'll probably notice that the education system is corrupt, the land is poor with a history of war, civil and otherwise - has unclear borders probably arbitrarily drawn by a European nation who didn't give them independence until sometime in very recent history. You'll find the people feel oppressed and they feel powerless.
Of course, your focus has been on the plight of women and girls under Islam, many millions of whom live in conditions that are antithetical to the most basic human happiness, as you know all too well. And the rationale for their oppression is drawn directly from scripture.
Of course, but that's just a rationalization. The reason men oppress women is because they can and by doing so it maximises their power. When they educated and women are not they can manipulate and control women easier, they can get the jobs with power and money and don't have to compete against 50% of the population for those positions. The conditions many women found themselves in 19th Century Britain were not exactly great either, and Scripture was used to justify treating western women like crap for millennia. Patriarchy, even extreme patriarchal societies are not exclusively populated with Islamic nations over all of history.
This is a problem. Because we see that many problems are coming from Muslims, it is tempting to blame the easiest to understand common element: their religion. IT is certainly making the situation worse, entrenching it and makes it near impossible to imagine it. And yes, some things do seem to our eyes to be difficult to see how they could ever exist within a peaceful moderate religion.
Then again, Christians used to burn and hang and behead heathens and witches with alarming regularity. OFten for political or social reasons of course. For the most part those reasons don't exist now. Christianity still does.
Persecuting innocent people for being witches still happens in some minor communities, but it is rare enough, and the communities are insular enough, to make it difficult to detect and investigate.
Maybe, despite their seeming strong association now may be a distant notion that seems impossible in the future. Without the need to eradicate Islam or severely reduce it to achieve this end.
Anyone who likens the criticism of Islam as a doctrine to a hatred of Muslims as peopleor to anti-Semitism, racism, and other forms of bigotryhas made it more difficult for Muslims who are truly suffering to speak about their problems.
Feel free to criticise Islam, but you should be criticising Islam, not laying 100% blame for bad things upon Islam. Sure, the reason that woman was flogged, or that blogger was beaten to death, is because of the religious beliefs of the floggers/lynchers but
a) those religious beliefs are not 'Islam'. They are Muslims, and their religion is Islam, but Islam is not a single thing with a correct version.
b) The question therefore is should be 'why does that version of Islam have the traction that it does to that community/culture/nation?
Dismissing this view as dishonest is not a good idea. If the problem is ISLAM an sich, then we're fucked and there's nothing we can do but genocide and total war. We're not going to persuade billions of people to convert. So basically, we're stuck with the shitfest and we just have to wait it out.
If, on the other hand, we see the problem as a toxic brand of a certain religion has gained sufficient popularity to be causing misery and violence and low education in certain regions of the world. This is a problem that isn't easy to fix, but it is something we can influence if any of the reasons the toxic brands are flourishing is because of the historical and present relations with the people of those regions.
Historically, the latter approach has led to long term resolutions, the former approach simply leads to short-term cessations of hostility. So which is it? Life under the red fear, or export McDonald's?
™ Version 4.2
(1)