Some water measurements for the Flood

Is this some kind of joke?

0.025 metres a minute would be
1.5 metres an hour
36 metres in a day
1,440 metres in 40 daysJust for the SI fans.Incidentally, educated estimates of mountain heights don't seem to enter into writing until the Greeks around 4th Century BC which is considerably after anyone else. How do you know the height of Himalayan mountains in whenever, 2300 BC?

But perhaps you could answer the question. How did God cause it to happen?What you seem to be suggesting --- stop me if I'm wrong --- is that when he was poofing things into existence, he poofed the weather and these "fountains of the deep" in such a way that they were bound to cause a flood 1500 years later. Is that your claim?It's not the message the Bible seems intended to convey, but I guess you can interpret it how you like.

The idea is that sin, the Fall, had an effect on the physical Creation that brought about disease and death and destruction of many other kinds that found expression at the Flood and in other physical events.

Are you hypothesizing a naturalistic mechanism by which eating a piece of fruit can change the weather so as to cause a global flood 1500 years later?If so, could you fill us in on the details?

I don't know how it works, but scripture speaks of "the fullness of time" until various events are to come about in various contexts, disasters being clearly understood to be punishment for sin. At some point God speaks of the sins of the Canaanites as not yet full, so that He waits until it is full to bring the Israelites into their land. I can't find the scripture verse for that, possibly one of those problems caused by the cacophony of translations. Judgments of nations have to do with the accumulation of sin. Anyway, the Flood would have been the result of the more than 1500 years of sin that had accumulated in the human race since the Fall. While all these things have to do with God's sovereign judgments, they also have a fine-tuning that suggests an exactness of timing that has an automatic aspect to it, as something built into the nature of the universe itself that affects it physically.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Do you have the natural mechanism and model that explains how sin, the Fall, had an effect on the physical Creation that brought about disease and death and destruction of many other kinds that found expression at the Flood and in other physical events?Please present it since you claim the Biblical Floods were not a miracle.

And you are about to present the natural mechanism and model that will explain all that or is this just more Creationist Biblical Bullshit?

If sin can make it rain then I have a great plan to cure the next drought ... the Governor of Texas had people praying for rain, which could only be counterproductive. Instead they should have thrown a big party with plenty of booze and hookers. I am prepared to offer my services as a sinner, I ask only my travelling expenses and a modest stipend for buying drugs with.

The problem of course is that rain is a blessing rather than a curse in conditions of drought, so I'm afraid that if you want to contribute your services to bring rain to Texas you would have to repent of your sins, get many Texans to repent of their sins as well, and of course pray along with them.

'Tis of course not a "natural mechanism" that does all this, but a spiritual mechanism, which science, alas, has no way of measuring and therefore no way of acknowledging. But there are always secondary or proximate causes, long chains of causes, that can keep the scientists busy.Meanwhile we can learn from the Bible, if we have a mind to, that this entire universe is spiritually ruled, ruled by the Moral Law of God, that nothing occurs that doesn't have an ultimate or primary spiritual cause. We live in a sort of spiritual soup one might say, in which spiritual forces are continually active, and to which our own motives and actions, good or bad, sinful or repentant, contribute their effects.Buddhist adepts, as well as some Hindu practitioners and others, can know something of this spiritual nature of the cosmos (how "karma" operates) although by their methods they will never know the God who made it, or find the way to salvation.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So the weather is affected not only by my moral condition but also by whether I want it to rain or not: if I'm good and want it to rain, it'll rain, if I'm bad and I don't want it to rain, it'll rain, if I'm good and want it not to rain, it won't rain, and so forth ...Of course, the Bible says that God "maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." But never mind the Bible, your theory is much more interesting. How do you suppose we should test it?

How does sin cause a selection of every animal on earth to present themselves to a single point in the middle East at a single point in time, just in time?

You imagine a contradiction where there is none.I don't suppose there is a way to test it. The moral influences of hundreds, thousands or millions of people, even as they change from day to day or minute to minute, all have to be calculated into the mix, along with the history of the location and all the minute to minute moral influences contributed by former inhabitants back generations, plus blessings and punishments already received and so on. You're a mathematician, you work it out.Repentance, however, is powerful. If you could get a few hundred atheists, including yourself of course, to change their minds about God, give up their sins and give themselves to Jesus Christ, to live morally good lives, and pray fervently and believingly for specific blessings on a place to which you've gathered them, you might see some pretty dramatic changes in a very short period of time. I wish you God's blessings on such an experiment.ABE: It might be a good test to pick a very difficult location, like Mongolia or Siberia, to set up shop and pray for favorable weather for planting crops. You might have to stay there a few years to make it a real test.ABE: Or take them to a strife-ridden part of Africa where Muslims are always killing Christians. You'd have to commit to intensive prayer and loving your enemies around the clock.Or where there is horrible disease, AIDs or Ebola or something like that.ABE: I often wish we Christians would get together in such a way for such causes, but we're a disorganized bunch I fear. Maybe a bunch of converted atheists committed to a science project would do better. You WOULD have to become Christians though.ABE: No, here's a big challenge: Las Vegas, where you live. Both the physical climate the moral climate could use an overhaul there. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Now that may be regarded as a miracle. Unless we think in terms of animals having a special sense that moves them in such a way, as they apparently sense some natural things like earthquakes in advance.ABE: But selecting by twos and sevens, no, I have to agree, that's a miracle.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.