Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 841 of 928 (758580)
05-28-2015 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 840 by Faith
05-28-2015 1:41 PM


Faith writes:
Right, and here we have another Redefinition in order to avoid the plain truth. Denial and redefinition.
Perhaps this time you can point out what terms are being redefined, or just stop making shit up.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 840 by Faith, posted 05-28-2015 1:41 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 842 of 928 (758582)
05-28-2015 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 832 by Faith
05-28-2015 1:08 PM


Sin?
You can't warn about sin while participating in it.
I think Heinlein said it best:
Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other sins are invented nonsense.
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 832 by Faith, posted 05-28-2015 1:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 843 by Faith, posted 05-28-2015 4:12 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 843 of 928 (758584)
05-28-2015 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 842 by Coyote
05-28-2015 3:43 PM


Re: Sin?
Last I heard, Heinlein isn't God.
Of course, maybe he's YOUR god?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 842 by Coyote, posted 05-28-2015 3:43 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 844 by Tangle, posted 05-29-2015 4:08 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 913 by ramoss, posted 05-31-2015 3:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 844 of 928 (758598)
05-29-2015 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 843 by Faith
05-28-2015 4:12 PM


Re: Sin?
Faith writes:
Last I heard, Heinlein isn't God.
Maybe not but at least he's not imaginary and has a sense of morality and decency.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 843 by Faith, posted 05-28-2015 4:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 845 of 928 (758605)
05-29-2015 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 838 by Faith
05-28-2015 1:38 PM


Re: No second thoughts?
Faith writes:
You really can't see the difference between helping people get what they want and doing it yourself?
No, I don't see any difference between robbing a bank and driving the getaway car. If it's wrong, aiding and abetting is wrong.
It's good to see though that your instinct is to help the person; you have to make an effort to be hateful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 838 by Faith, posted 05-28-2015 1:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 846 of 928 (758610)
05-29-2015 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 806 by Faith
05-28-2015 1:48 AM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
Faith writes:
I picked it up from another Christian Nobody's website like my own and it's not clear where that person got it. Searching didn't turn up that particular incident for me either, but it did turn up reports on this sort of persecution being common in that region of Mexico, such as Persecuted Christians in Mexico kept from returning home.
And Here's another one .
And here is a Google page with a variety of points of view.
Faith, I'm not sure that you see the irony in you posting these events. First, you miss the point that this is Catholic Christians employing their religious conscience which does not agree with the Protestant views (according to you and obviously these people) to devalue the citizen status of those of a different belief. They are using laws to strip Protestants of power, authority, and rights that other members in the society have. In this case, the correct view is that the Catholics in Hidalgo are representative of the Protestants and Catholics in our country, who want to remove power, authority and rights from same sex couples. This is the problem with laws based on Religious conscience, it is a slippery slope that can allow people to be discriminated against because their beliefs are different than those in power. Yet, these are the same laws you protect here because in America they give your "tribe" authority over others.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 806 by Faith, posted 05-28-2015 1:48 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 847 by Faith, posted 05-29-2015 6:00 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 847 of 928 (758620)
05-29-2015 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 846 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
05-29-2015 2:52 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
To compare the refusal of wedding services because it violates God's laws to physical violence against those of another belief system, driving them out of their homes and threatening to kill them, is eye-poppingly absurd, it seems to me, but it's time for me to give up on expecting anything to make sense at EvC. Clearly the consensus here is that refusing to support gay marriage is equivalent to the Inquisition or worse so we just have to expect to be punished for it. Even physical retaliation against us by gays is not to be prosecuted. I had the silly idea that if I kept repeating the arguments SOMEBODY would get it and give up the absurd injustice, but it isn't happening.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 846 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 05-29-2015 2:52 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 848 by jar, posted 05-29-2015 6:10 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 848 of 928 (758622)
05-29-2015 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 847 by Faith
05-29-2015 6:00 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
Faith writes:
Even physical retaliation against us by gays is not to be prosecuted. I had the silly idea that if I kept repeating the arguments SOMEBODY would get it and give up the absurd injustice, but it isn't happening.
Once again you are simply just making shit up and lying. No one has said or implied or asserted or suggested or hinted that violence by any group against another group should not be prosecuted (note that is a different word than "persecute") and you are simply once again just making unsupported, dishonest, irrelevant assertions.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 847 by Faith, posted 05-29-2015 6:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 849 by Faith, posted 05-29-2015 6:44 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 849 of 928 (758624)
05-29-2015 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 848 by jar
05-29-2015 6:10 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
Perhaps you can show even one instance of anyone's calling for the prosecution of those who committed the vandalism against Christian businesses? Unlike the calls for prosecution of the Christians who refused to support gay weddings, I've heard people say they "don't condone" the vandalism but nothing about bringing the perps to justice.
And then there is Tempe's equation of mobs hanging pastors up by their arms and driving Protestants out of their homes, with refusing to serve gay weddings. Strange equivalences here. Unprecedented I think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 848 by jar, posted 05-29-2015 6:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 850 by Omnivorous, posted 05-29-2015 7:23 PM Faith has replied
 Message 851 by jar, posted 05-29-2015 7:56 PM Faith has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(5)
Message 850 of 928 (758626)
05-29-2015 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 849 by Faith
05-29-2015 6:44 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
I personally think religious zealots everywhere should be prosecuted for transgressing the rights of others; and it does happen everywhere, a great daisy chain of Muslims persecuting Jews and Christians, Christians persecuting other Christians now, mostly, though they have a great track record against pretty much everyone; Jews persecuting Palestinians as though out to prove that, indeed, those to whom evil is done...; Hindus finding grist for their mill wherever they look...even the Buddhists have a history of persecuting the animists present where Buddhist teachings spread, and of violent clashes between temples and schools.
So the fact that no one here adopts your Mexican, evangelist-hating Catholic thugs cause celebre signals not hypocrisy but a weary awareness that you godly folks can't seem to keep your hands off each other.
Tempe didn't equate violence and the refusal to bake a cake--he pointed out that both narratives reveal religious zealotry in the act of denying full human status to its victims.
That was clear. It's rather dishonest of you to suggest otherwise.
Edited by Omnivorous, : -that

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 849 by Faith, posted 05-29-2015 6:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 852 by jar, posted 05-29-2015 9:03 PM Omnivorous has not replied
 Message 853 by Faith, posted 05-29-2015 9:20 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 851 of 928 (758627)
05-29-2015 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 849 by Faith
05-29-2015 6:44 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
I will call for prosecution of vandals period, but I have also not seen a believable report of vandalism against Christians over refusing to bake cakes for a same-sex wedding. Remember I would want believable reports not just crap from the Christian Cult of Ignorance.
And if you could actually read you would see that was NOT the correspondence Taq made and that you are simply misrepresenting his position, as expected.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 849 by Faith, posted 05-29-2015 6:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 852 of 928 (758629)
05-29-2015 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 850 by Omnivorous
05-29-2015 7:23 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
What is even funnier is Faith complaining that some Mexican Roman Catholics forced Evangelicals to leave their village when she has made statements like the following from her posts and blogs.
quote:
Feel I should offer at least a brief clarification of my post about the attack on the French magazine Charlie Hebdo, where I said that France and in fact all of Europe need to deport their Muslims and get back to Protestant Christianity.
and from Message 246.
Faith writes:
Since we will have laws against atheism I suppose those are the options, yes. They will have to live under our laws as written or leave.
Faith writes:
This would have to be determined as the state took form, what limits there might be on those who have alien views. They certainly would not be allowed to hold office or teach their views, but they might be allowed to vote in some elections depending on what the election was about, since they should have the right to arrange some things according to their wishes if they want to do so among people whose views they have come to hate.
Faith and the rest of her tribe are the greatest threat that the US faces IMHO.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 850 by Omnivorous, posted 05-29-2015 7:23 PM Omnivorous has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 854 by Faith, posted 05-29-2015 9:31 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 853 of 928 (758630)
05-29-2015 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 850 by Omnivorous
05-29-2015 7:23 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
[qs] Tempe didn't equate violence and the refusal to bake a cake--he pointed out that both narratives reveal religious zealotry in the act of denying full human status to its victims. [qs] Which is precisely the false equivalence I was talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 850 by Omnivorous, posted 05-29-2015 7:23 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 854 of 928 (758631)
05-29-2015 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 852 by jar
05-29-2015 9:03 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
Unbelievable. Deporting Muslims because they are committed to killing people who don't believe as they do, requiring atheists to live under Christian laws, which don't deprive them of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness, just require them not to blaspheme God essentially or teach against God; depriving people of alien views that are hostile to the present government of the power to destroy that government, all this is treated as "the greatest threat the US faces." Not Islam with its stated goal of bringing everyone under Allah and Shariah law, no, Christianity with sensible laws to protect itself while allowing others basic freedoms. Which laws characterized the first colonies here, laws that kept Catholics out of office for instance because the Pope wants to rule everybody and kill those who resist. The only benign player in the game -- not perfect, not without fault, but still basically benigh -- is under attack while the wolves are defended against the sheep. Unbelievable.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 852 by jar, posted 05-29-2015 9:03 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 855 by JonF, posted 05-29-2015 9:45 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 856 by DrJones*, posted 05-29-2015 9:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 863 by PaulK, posted 05-30-2015 3:36 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 867 by jar, posted 05-30-2015 8:04 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 869 by jar, posted 05-30-2015 8:28 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(3)
Message 855 of 928 (758633)
05-29-2015 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 854 by Faith
05-29-2015 9:31 PM


Re: Inquisition still continuing
Wow. She really doesn't see that she just proved and emphasized Jar's point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 854 by Faith, posted 05-29-2015 9:31 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 923 by RAZD, posted 05-31-2015 6:07 PM JonF has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024