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Author Topic:   Open letter to all Atheists.
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


(1)
Message 1 of 235 (726028)
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


If you are offended by prayer in public places, or government institutions, that offends me.

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2 of 235 (726030)
05-05-2014 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


If you are offended by prayer in public places, or government institutions, that offends me.
So?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 05-05-2014 9:16 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(18)
Message 3 of 235 (726035)
05-05-2014 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


But Jesus was offended by public prayer
quote:
5"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. 7"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
Mathew 6:5-7
Got it here: Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 203 by riVeRraT, posted 06-23-2014 2:16 PM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(11)
Message 4 of 235 (726041)
05-05-2014 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


Has someone complained about public prayer? Given recent news, I suspect you are equivocating between public prayer and the imposition of sectarian prayer by an arm of the government.
Politicized Christians may regret wedding their prayer to governmental power when they discover they are bound to an abusive spouse.
Christianity has degenerated: its founder chased money changers from the temple and separated obligations to Caesar from those to God; today Christians build prosperity mega-churches and seek to join religion to governance at all levels.
As an atheist, I find this anthropologically fascinating.
If I were a Christian, I'd find it appalling.
Nothing is less popular in the U.S. than government mandates. Forcing yourself on others always begs for backlash; using the government to force yourself on others guarantees it.
Many religious people understand that asking government to take your faith under its wing soon puts you in their pocket. Good luck with that.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(4)
Message 5 of 235 (726042)
05-05-2014 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


riverrat writes:
...that offends me.
Good.
Christians need to be offended more than they are. Your particular delusion is no more deserving of protection or governmental support than any other delusion, and the sooner you accept that the better off it will be for everyone.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(7)
Message 6 of 235 (726051)
05-06-2014 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


If you are offended by prayer in public places, or government institutions, that offends me.
But what if I'm a real person, and what if therefore instead of saying that I'm "offended" by "prayer in public places", as apparently the imaginary people in your head do, I make like a real person and point out that entanglement of church and state violates the First Amendment? How do you feel about that, and why should I give a damn?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(2)
Message 7 of 235 (726053)
05-06-2014 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


Offending
If religious people pray to their favourite Gods in public before; let's say a Rugby game, it's fine.
What offends me is:
1. The same religious persons don't thank their Gods in public after a lost game for loosing.
2. One of their previously praying players ended up in hospital with a broken neck.
3. Blaming the referee for their loss and the broken neck.
They never even consider the Spooks they supposedly prayed to before the game, to win the game, involved in anything during the game.
Then the winning team prays and thanks the same Spooks for letting them win.
Crazy.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


(2)
Message 8 of 235 (726054)
05-06-2014 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


Well excuse me!
As a Canadian I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for offending you with my taking offence at your offensive behaviour and I hope that you can get over it. I will point out that now I am offended at both your praying and your taking offence so I am more offended than you are.
Would it be ok if the members of Boko Haram showed up at the town hall and insisted on being able to invoke the name of Allah before, during and after every session?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 05-05-2014 9:16 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 9 of 235 (726055)
05-06-2014 8:46 AM


In the U.S, there is a constitutional protection against the promotion of any religion by the government, whether or not some people are offended by or heartened by such promotion.
There is no constitutional protection against being offended, by anything.
If you are offended by something that is not constitutionally protected, suck it up.

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by NoNukes, posted 05-06-2014 9:51 AM JonF has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(4)
Message 10 of 235 (726056)
05-06-2014 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


Offended peppers
... that offends me.
And you have every right to feel offended.
... offended by prayer in public places, or government institutions ...
And we have every right to feel offended.
The law allows everyone to feel offended and here we are all offended! Damn, what a great country!
I'm offended. He's offended.
Everyone can be offended.
Wouldn't you like to be offended, too.
Edited by AZPaul3, : title

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faceman
Member (Idle past 3385 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 11 of 235 (726057)
05-06-2014 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


Oh I don't know - I sometimes get a little kick out of offending with prayer. I like to think of it as tough love (but really it's just a guilty pleasure).

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 12 of 235 (726058)
05-06-2014 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


Thank God that in the US prayer in public is a protected right. Whether it offends anyone or not, US citizens have the right to pray in public.
Thank God that in the US Governmental enforced prayer is forbidden. Whether or not it is offensive to have a prayer in public school to start the day, it is illegal.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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faceman
Member (Idle past 3385 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 13 of 235 (726060)
05-06-2014 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Minnemooseus
05-05-2014 9:39 PM


Re: But Jesus was offended by public prayer
I've always loved those verses, since I hate praying in public. It always feels like I'm just saying "ditto" to whatever the lead person is praying about.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 14 of 235 (726062)
05-06-2014 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by JonF
05-06-2014 8:46 AM


In the U.S, there is a constitutional protection against the promotion of any religion by the government, whether or not some people are offended by or heartened by such promotion.
Unfortunately, 3 of the Supreme Court justices think that as long as a practice is traditional it is okay, while two more think that as long as you are not being physically or legally forced to participate, anything Christian is okay. One of those five is not even convinced that the first amendment fully applies to the states.
Anyone surprised by the verdict in Town of Greece v. Galloway has not been paying attention. About the only thing surprising here is the return of the rat.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 15 of 235 (726063)
05-06-2014 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by faceman
05-06-2014 9:26 AM


Re: But Jesus was offended by public prayer
I've always loved those verses, since I hate praying in public. It always feels like I'm just saying "ditto" to whatever the lead person is praying about.
What's more annoying is that the prayer leaders know that this is what they're making you do, half the time when they're ostensibly talking to God they're really preaching at the congregation. Which is insincere.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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