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Author Topic:   Creation Museum a House of Cards Sitting on Old Old Earth Rocks
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 49 of 61 (735543)
08-17-2014 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by NoNukes
08-17-2014 4:53 PM


Re: Engineers are not scientists
Dunno what happens in the USA, but here in Blighty, engineers receive BScs (Bachelor of Science degrees) and would be astonished to hear that they are not considered to be scientists.
In fact they actually have to a eat botanists in their second year and form a box girder bridge out of their rib cages.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 08-17-2014 4:53 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by NoNukes, posted 08-17-2014 5:17 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 59 by RAZD, posted 08-18-2014 3:03 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 52 of 61 (735547)
08-17-2014 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by NoNukes
08-17-2014 5:17 PM


Re: Engineers are not scientists
NoNukes writes:
I would find it surprising and a bit pompous to hear someone with a BS degree in any subject calling themselves a scientist simply by way of having received such a degree. To my mind that's a
That is certainly not what is done in the US. Quite frankly, even a BS degree in biology, chemistry, or physics does not make you a scientist.
Well people here at EVC tend to take the tautological view that a scientist is someone who practices science and then use it as a way of dismissing opinions from educated people who have studied science but don't practice it. That's just a nonsense, good ideas and argument can come from anywhere - they just need to be backed by reason and evidence.
It's actually more usual for an engineer to get a B.Eng than a Bsc. I have a mate who's a Civil Engineer and designs and build bridges, power stations and airports for a living, he wouldn't know which way up to hold a test tube but he's sure as hell a scientist.
I would also say that my other engineering friend who is an Aeronautical Engineering and designs flight simulators for British Aerospace also probably thinks of himself as a scientist. And I bloody sure I do too.
Economists and mathematicians can and do get B.Scs. I'd consider them scientists too - and why not? They all follow rational, objective models in trying to understand our world.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by NoNukes, posted 08-17-2014 5:17 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by NoNukes, posted 08-17-2014 7:27 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-17-2014 7:31 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 08-17-2014 11:05 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 56 of 61 (735565)
08-18-2014 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Adequate
08-17-2014 7:31 PM


Re: Engineers are not scientists
Dr. A writes:
Though I like to think that mathematicians are wrong less often.
Ah, yes, but that wouldn't be thinking scientifically would it? Though I'm sure you're right. Perhaps economics is just harder......
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-17-2014 7:31 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 57 of 61 (735566)
08-18-2014 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by NoNukes
08-17-2014 11:05 PM


Re: Engineers are not scientists
NoNukes writes:
The reason why not is because following 'rational objective models in trying to understand our world' is not the definition of scientist. Your definition might exclude astrology, but it would not exclude numerology in general or ID. Not all logical pursuits are sciences.
It would excluded both, because in neither do their conclusions match their evidence. But I'm not going to go any further with this - torturing the meaning of words is as much use as arguing about the smells of an angel's fart.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 08-17-2014 11:05 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 60 of 61 (735574)
08-18-2014 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by RAZD
08-18-2014 3:03 AM


Re: Engineers are still not scientists
I would say that an engineer carries out an empirical test of an scientific theory every time he builds a bridge.
But this is all just 'no true Scotsman' stuff.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by RAZD, posted 08-18-2014 3:03 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by RAZD, posted 08-18-2014 8:11 AM Tangle has not replied

  
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