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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 556 of 1309 (728097)
05-23-2014 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Faith
05-23-2014 4:53 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Christianity always had "more rights" in Christian countries because it was recognized as the truth and the basis for a good society -- for all citizens, not just Christians; also because Christians had been persecuted and had to have those protections.
oh yea the poor christians where persecuted when was that again?? Are any of those persecuted Christians still alive to tell the tale?? Christians where the persecutors for the past 1500 years its time you get over it that the days of your absolute power are over.
But gays have been and still are persecuted, they still die because of bigots like you.
If you succeed in throwing it out completely what's going to happen is a degeneration of society to a level even you can't imagine or desire.
Yea well i like these new society EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. k
What you don't get is that it IS loving people to warn them about the consequences of providing rights for something like gay marriage which is a violation of God's law,
Dont care what your god thinks he does not get a vote, neither does satan, neither does vishnu, or thor, or zeus, or perun, or jupiter ..... Society makes the laws not gods.
consequences to the society but also to the individuals.
Yes but good consequences
It's even loving toward the homosexuals too.
LMAO - laughing my ass off
Would it be loving to let them destroy themselves, end up in Hell because they've been deceived into thinking their lifestyle is OK when it's not?
Their lifestyle is perfectly fine its your book thats wrong.
Sin is sin, any kind of sin gets you into Hell, but deceiving yourself that your sin is not a sin is a particularly dangerous situation.
Yea sin is sin and the LAW IS THE LAW. One has to obeyed by everybody even Christians the other only by Christians.
I've never killed or persecuted anyone in my life and I don't know any Christians who have.
Yea because when they do you drop the well they where not really Christian. Hitler was very Christian, he believed in Jesus, and the bible had the church on his side but you would claim he was not.
I am glad that i live in an age where religion is dying where people dont get moral authority because they read a bronze age book, but by actually being moral.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 4:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 558 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 5:12 PM frako has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 557 of 1309 (728098)
05-23-2014 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 554 by Faith
05-23-2014 4:54 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Oh no doubt you can throw us to something. Read up on the Inquisition. I'm sure you can come up with some really interesting places to throw us, hang us, bury us, suffocate us, whatever.
Well if you have no preferences one way or another, I know a man who can get me some cut-price wombats.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 554 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 4:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 559 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 5:14 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 558 of 1309 (728099)
05-23-2014 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 556 by frako
05-23-2014 5:07 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Hitler was a Catholic, he had the Pope on his side, and he modeled the Holocaust after the Inquisition.
Like I've been saying, you can make sure we're punished, you have the power now, and you're obviously a good fascist so I expect you to come up with some really good ways to do away with us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by frako, posted 05-23-2014 5:07 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 561 by frako, posted 05-23-2014 5:59 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 559 of 1309 (728100)
05-23-2014 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 557 by Dr Adequate
05-23-2014 5:10 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Yes, death by wombats ought to be interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 557 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-23-2014 5:10 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 560 of 1309 (728101)
05-23-2014 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Faith
05-23-2014 4:53 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
quote:
Christianity always had "more rights" in Christian countries because it was recognized as the truth and the basis for a good society -- for all citizens, not just Christians; also because Christians had been persecuted and had to have those protections.
Sure, the "right" to persecute others is just a "protection".
quote:
If you succeed in throwing it out completely what's going to happen is a degeneration of society to a level even you can't imagine or desire.
I'd don't want to get rid of Christianity. But there is little that is Christian or good in your cult. However, because I believe in freedom of religion I can only hope that it dies away as its lies and evil are exposed.
quote:
What you don't get is that it IS loving people to warn them about the consequences of providing rights for something like gay marriage which is a violation of God's law, consequences to the society but also to the individuals.
Trying to control people with lies and empty threats isn't loving. If the threats weren't empty it would be terrorism.
quote:
Would it be loving to let them destroy themselves, end up in Hell because they've been deceived into thinking their lifestyle is OK when it's not? Sin is sin, any kind of sin gets you into Hell, but deceiving yourself that your sin is not a sin is a particularly dangerous situation. Jesus was no wimpy patsy of the sort you all like to picture Him, He loved sinners but He didn't let them stay in their sins, He told them to "repent and believe." And He warned the Pharisees they were headed for Hell too.
If you just stuck to warning people that they were going to hell I would be a lot happier.
But you're a habitual and unrepentant sinner, too. And your religion is at the heart of your sins. If you want to be a Christian abandon your pride and your hate and your lies. Because if Christianity is true, you're headed straight for hell.
quote:
I've never killed or persecuted anyone in my life and I don't know any Christians who have
But there are Christiians who have. And your attitude is very dangerous to freedom and society. Belonging to a religion you don't like is a sin ? Then there is no right to practice that religion, and you can suppress it any way you have the power to. Teaching truths you don't like is a sin? Then you can suppress those truths, too. God's judgement is a threat ? Get rid of the sinners. The Old Testament has plenty of nastiness if you need scriptural justification.
Maybe you ought to see the virtues of a fair and just society, instead of claiming special privileges for yourself and denying others the rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 4:53 PM Faith has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 561 of 1309 (728102)
05-23-2014 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by Faith
05-23-2014 5:12 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Like I've been saying, you can make sure we're punished, you have the power now, and you're obviously a good fascist so I expect you to come up with some really good ways to do away with us
Yea but im not Christian il just leave you alone once you leave the gays alone.
p.s. Catholic=Christian.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 5:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 566 by Faith, posted 05-24-2014 1:14 AM frako has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 562 of 1309 (728108)
05-23-2014 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 559 by Faith
05-23-2014 5:14 PM


Yes, death by wombats ought to be interesting.
I'm surprised you haven't read the ancient accounts of the nobles right to trial by wombat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 559 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 5:14 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 563 of 1309 (728109)
05-23-2014 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 562 by Modulous
05-23-2014 6:48 PM


If they eat her, she's innocent, if they don't, she's a witch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by Modulous, posted 05-23-2014 6:48 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 564 of 1309 (728113)
05-23-2014 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:42 AM


Re: More Christian Pseudohistory Self Absolvements
Yes RAZD, you can find all those quotes too. Find the ones where they speak of the necessity of Christian morality for a good society. They're out there too.
Curiously, I do not need to look any further than the ones I posted, because they tell you that the nation was not founded as a christian nation.
It is a secular nation that happens to have a lot of christians.
If you were right, then the quotes I listed would not exist.
QED
Enjoy.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:42 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 565 by Faith, posted 05-24-2014 1:08 AM RAZD has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 565 of 1309 (728123)
05-24-2014 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 564 by RAZD
05-23-2014 10:36 PM


They extolled Christian morality -- some quotes
The ones you posted show that they were not Christians, which I already said if you had bothered to read what I said. What I went on to say was that despite their not being Christians, but Deists and Unitarians and even an atheist, that nevertheless they all wrote extolling Christian morality as necessary to a successful society. Christian morality, not Christian faith as such. These quotes are actually well known and I think must even have been posted here at some time or other, but now it looks like I'm going to have to track them down again.
ABE: There are lots of collections of such quotes: here's one:
http://www.usachristianministries.com/...t-god-and-the-bible
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God. - John Adams -
Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable. - George Washington -
True religion affords to government its surest support. - George Washington -
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. - John Adams -
The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity. - John Adams -
God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever. - Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial
The Christian religion is the best religion that has ever been given to man - Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial -
The United States in Congress assembled recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools. - United States Congress 1782 -
For the use of schools.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 564 by RAZD, posted 05-23-2014 10:36 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 568 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-24-2014 9:35 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 569 by RAZD, posted 05-24-2014 9:39 AM Faith has replied
 Message 575 by dwise1, posted 05-24-2014 12:00 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 566 of 1309 (728124)
05-24-2014 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 561 by frako
05-23-2014 5:59 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
The problem with calling Catholicism Christian is that millions of Christians were killed by the Catholic Church during the Inquisition. You ought at least to care about pointing the finger at the right villain instead of at the victims of the villain.\
And in your diatribe against me in which you mentioned something about denying Africans condoms you also didn't bother to find out that it was the Catholic Church that did that too:
Catholic Church and HIV/AIDS - Wikipedia
Apparently you know nothing about the history of the Reformation and the fact that Catholicism was rejected by the Reformers as false Christianity.
I forget what else you accused me and my fellow Christians of, but no doubt the same sort of blind slander.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 561 by frako, posted 05-23-2014 5:59 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 567 of 1309 (728129)
05-24-2014 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 566 by Faith
05-24-2014 1:14 AM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Ok first one question are US evangelicals Christians? the IHOP guys (International House of Prayer) not the other ihop.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Faith, posted 05-24-2014 1:14 AM Faith has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 568 of 1309 (728139)
05-24-2014 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 565 by Faith
05-24-2014 1:08 AM


Re: They extolled Christian morality -- some quotes
ABE: There are lots of collections of such quotes: here's one:
What proportion of them are goddamned lies?
The United States in Congress assembled recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools. - United States Congress 1782 -
Like that one, which is a goddamned lie.
For the use of schools.
Is something that goddamned liars pretend they said.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 565 by Faith, posted 05-24-2014 1:08 AM Faith has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 569 of 1309 (728140)
05-24-2014 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 565 by Faith
05-24-2014 1:08 AM


And More Christian Pseudohistory Self Absolvements - a good example
ABE: There are lots of collections of such quotes: here's one:
Now find them in the actual papers written by the actual people and not what appears to be fabrications of the Christian Pseudohistory ilk.
For instance Jefferson -- you quote
quote:
The Christian religion is the best religion that has ever been given to man - Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial -
Which is so at odds with his writings in general that I question the whole as being fabrications.
Doing a little basic research on this I found:
the "quote" attributed to Jefferson:
quote:
This quotation appeared in a handwritten manuscript by the Reverend Ethan Allen (1796-1879). The story was related to Allen by a Mr. Ingle, who claimed to have been told a story that Jefferson was walking to church services one Sunday,
"...with his large red prayer book under his arm when a friend querying him after their mutual good morning said which way are you walking Mr. Jefferson. To which he replied to Church Sir. You going to church Mr. J. You do not believe a word in it. Sir said Mr. J. No nation has ever yet existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I as chief Magistrate of this nation am bound to give it the sanction of my example. Good morning Sir."[2]
The story comes to us third-hand, and has not been confirmed by any references in Jefferson's papers or any other known sources. Its authenticity is questionable.
And then I looked at ALL the quotes on the Jefferson Memorial ... and could not find "Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man" listed. Anywhere.
In other words you have a questionable quote from questionable sources running counter to other of his statements that are well documented, and one that is NOT in the location your list claims: a perfect example, in other words, of Christian Pseudohistory (self-serving falsehoods).
As such I have zero confidence in any of your quotes being accurate and honest.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 565 by Faith, posted 05-24-2014 1:08 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 570 by Modulous, posted 05-24-2014 10:22 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 571 by Faith, posted 05-24-2014 11:13 AM RAZD has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 570 of 1309 (728142)
05-24-2014 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 569 by RAZD
05-24-2014 9:39 AM


Re: And More Christian Pseudohistory Self Absolvements - a good example
Now find them in the actual papers written by the actual people and not what appears to be fabrications of the Christian Pseudohistory ilk
Sounds fun, the one you mentioned sounds like a Lincoln quote:
quote:
In letters and documents sent from this office I have expressed myself better than I now can. In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man.
reported in 1 (one) newspaper, I can't find the original. The other?
Massachusetts Historical Society: Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, page 98
(Look down to where there is crossing out and tiny writing).
quote:
...that of the proprietors of slaves a very small proportion indeed are ever seen to labour and can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever; that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation is among possible events; that it may become probable by supernatural interference! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest. -But it is impossible to be temperate and to pursue this subject through the various considerations of policy, of morals, of history natural and civil. We must be contented to hope they will force their way into every one's mind. I think a change already perceptible, since the origin of the present revolution. The spirit of the master is abating, that of the slave rising from the dust, his condition mollifying, the way I hope preparing, under the auspices of heaven, for a total emancipation, and that this is disposed, in the order of events, to be with the consent of the masters, rather than by their extirpation.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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