Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 361 of 1309 (727538)
05-19-2014 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 358 by RAZD
05-18-2014 6:00 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
This is being punished for having a Biblical viewpoint, utterly against the founding freedoms of this nation. ...
Stop posting blatant falsehoods Faith.
This nation was not founded on 'biblical viewpoints' but adamantly secular ones -- it was intentionally non-denominational secular principals because they KNEW that any religious views would become an abuse of views for others ----- they had seen it, experienced it, and found it distasteful\abhorent.
I said nothing except that the "founding freedoms of this nation" supported a Christian perspective and they certainly did. And the very idea of freedom of conscience is Christian. PROTESTANT Christian, it's condemned by Catholicism.
From the founding Pilgrims and Puritans there was a strong Protestant foundation for the idea of freedom, and every colony had its own Protestant denomination. That's 175 years of mostly Protestant Christian government and culture until the Constitutional era.
Yes when the Federal government was formed 175 years after the original founding, a state church was rejected for the reasons you state, but even that was never intended to kick religion out of the nation as is so often said today. They thought of this as a Christian nation. Even the nonChristian Constitutional founders who were Deists and Unitarians, strongly affirmed the need for the nation to be steeped in specifically Christian morality. Being Enlightenment men they rejected the gospel of Christ but they knew that the moral principles, the Ten Commandments for instance, were essential to a peaceful and prosperous nation. You can find Washington and Adams and Jefferson affirming this, and even the atheist Paine. Possibly Franklin too though I'm not completely sure about him.
But this nation was at least 95% Christian for the first 175 years for sure and even for the next 200. The Constitution itself does however promote a secular mindset although that was vigorously protested by many Christians at the time, who considered the absence of any mention of God to be a betrayal of the true nature of the nation. In spite of this betrayal the Christian mentality prevailed in the nation until quite recently, only the last few decades finally overthrowing it. This secular mentality so popular now is a brand new thing.
So the pagan forces have now won their cause against the majority of the people and the Christian minds who originally conceived and built the nation. I guess you can be happy although it's a disaster for the nation.
OH, and the original American schools taught from the Bible and the Westminster Catechism. Yes, the public schools. The idea was that the citizenry needed to know how to read in order to read the Bible and live by it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by RAZD, posted 05-18-2014 6:00 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by frako, posted 05-19-2014 2:58 AM Faith has replied
 Message 394 by RAZD, posted 05-19-2014 6:45 AM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 362 of 1309 (727540)
05-19-2014 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 353 by Modulous
05-18-2014 3:37 PM


Re: Christians have never abused power in the States!
You've bought an awful lot of evil propaganda. What you impute to Christianity is often not due to Christianity at all.
The Christians who think they can persecute members of society with impunity are certainly losing power in America, thankfully. They still have way too much, though.
"Persecute" is typical lying propaganda designed like all the rest of the namecalling on this thread to smear Christians just as the Nazis smeared the Jews and others.. Refusing to make a wedding cake for a gay wedding is not persecution, but fining the Christian baker for that refusal IS persecution.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 3:37 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by Modulous, posted 05-19-2014 2:10 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 363 of 1309 (727541)
05-19-2014 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
05-19-2014 12:44 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
Your knowledge of history is appalling. The Pilgrims and Puritans never did any such thing. Muslims do this in their own countries, spit at and shove Christians off the curb, that's where that idea comes from, not from Christians. None of the Christian founders of this nation did any such thing. Where does this evil propaganda come from? Have you read the writings of Bradford and Winthrop? Do you care?
Have you ever heard of the Boston Martyrs, Faith ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 12:44 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:46 AM PaulK has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 364 of 1309 (727542)
05-19-2014 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
05-19-2014 12:44 AM


"Your knowledge of history is appalling", writes Faith
Your knowledge of history is appalling. The Pilgrims and Puritans never did any such thing.
Boston martyrs - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 12:44 AM Faith has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 365 of 1309 (727543)
05-19-2014 1:40 AM


There's a funny echo in here ...

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 366 of 1309 (727544)
05-19-2014 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by PaulK
05-19-2014 1:34 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
You can always find aberrations and exceptions. The Salem Witch Trials are an example. These things are not definitive or characteristic and at least in the case of the Salem trials were opposed and abhorred by the Puritan leadership.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 1:34 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 1:54 AM Faith has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 367 of 1309 (727545)
05-19-2014 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Faith
05-19-2014 1:46 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
You can always find aberrations and exceptions. The Salem Witch Trials are an example. These things are not definitive or characteristic and at least in the case of the Salem trials were opposed and abhorred by the Puritan leadership.
I think that passing a law specifically banning Quakers from the Colony on pain of death - and actually executing some who disobeyed it - is more than a mere aberration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-19-2014 1:56 AM PaulK has not replied
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:58 AM PaulK has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 368 of 1309 (727546)
05-19-2014 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by PaulK
05-19-2014 1:54 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
No, no, see, some guy was walking along with a gallows, he bumped into some Quakers, he tripped ...
Oopsie.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 1:54 AM PaulK has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 369 of 1309 (727547)
05-19-2014 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by PaulK
05-19-2014 1:54 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
THREE mistakes, Paul, THREE.
I'd say the law that fines Christian businesses for refusing to support gay marriage is in the same evil spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 1:54 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 2:04 AM Faith has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 370 of 1309 (727548)
05-19-2014 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by Faith
05-19-2014 1:58 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
THREE mistakes, Paul, THREE.
Which "mistakes" are those ? There were four executions, and a whole lot of other bad behaviour.
quote:
I'd say the law that fines Christian businesses for refusing to support gay marriage is in the same evil spirit.
There is no law commanding support for gay marriage. Only laws demanding non-discrimination in the provision of services.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 2:17 AM PaulK has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 371 of 1309 (727549)
05-19-2014 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by PaulK
05-19-2014 2:04 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
There is no law commanding support for gay marriage. Only laws demanding non-discrimination in the provision of services.
Clever of them.
So when you refuse to inscribe a cake with a message extolling white supremacy you expect to be punished and would consider it only right.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 2:04 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 2:25 AM Faith has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 372 of 1309 (727550)
05-19-2014 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Faith
05-19-2014 2:17 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
Clever of them.
What on earth are you talking about ?
quote:
So when you refuse to inscribe a cake with a message extolling white supremacy you expect to be punished and would consider it only right.
So far as I am aware White Supremacists are not a minority in need of protection or with legal protection from discrimination. And personally I would point out that there are significant differences between would-be oppressors and those who wish to be free from oppression.
Again, you are attacking the law without understanding what it says or the reasons behind it. But I guess pointing that out is what you call "hate".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 2:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 2:39 AM PaulK has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 373 of 1309 (727551)
05-19-2014 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by PaulK
05-19-2014 2:25 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
If a Christian business owner can be fined for refusing to do anything that supports gay marriage that is an evil law. Period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 2:25 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 3:50 AM Faith has replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 374 of 1309 (727552)
05-19-2014 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Faith
05-19-2014 1:05 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
Ten Commandments for instance, were essential to a peaceful and prosperous nation.
1.Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Well that's not a law in america quite the opposite you can worship any god.
2.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
that's not a law either have a look at your dollar bill, and yea its perfectly ok to bow and pray to a honey bo bo statue.
3.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;
Also not a law - freedom of speech
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. - by watching football not a law or anything close to a law.
5.Honour thy father and thy mother: not a law or anything close
6. Thou shalt not kill. Final'y a law dont kill unless your a cop shooting an armed man or a soldier shooting the enemy ...
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. - not a law or anything close
8.Thou shalt not steal. - Oh finally another law, don't steal unless its the land of the native Americans and your going to Christianise them, or its oil in a foreign country, or if your stealing tax money from the poor ...
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. yea as long as it is not in court or when talking to the FBI you can lie about your neighbour as much as you want not a law.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Cmmon america is built on coveting thy neighbours stuff
So how many of the 10 commandments are the basis of america again?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:05 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 3:17 AM frako has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 375 of 1309 (727553)
05-19-2014 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by frako
05-19-2014 2:58 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
I said "were." They've been thrown out in recent years, that's why the nation is self-destructing.
Yes, even the Deist founders were in favor of the Ten Commandments.
"
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by frako, posted 05-19-2014 2:58 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2014 3:53 AM Faith has replied
 Message 380 by frako, posted 05-19-2014 4:11 AM Faith has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024