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Author Topic:   NASA predicts end of civilization as we know it
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1 of 19 (722142)
03-17-2014 7:35 AM


NASA study: industrial civilization 'may be heading toward collapse' | Daily Mail Online
Industrial civilization 'may be heading toward collapse' within decades because of its strain on the planet's resources, NASA report finds
Collapse of civilization may be linked to increased strain on planet's resources and wide gap between the rich and the poor
Study says rich 'Elites' may be responsible for both problems
In both doomsday scenarios predicted by study, poor 'Commoners' collapse first, later followed by the Elites
To avoid collapse inequality must be reduced and population growth must be strictly controlled, it says
So now we have a serious end time prediction, but given that there where so many in the past years will anyone listen?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(3)
Message 2 of 19 (722143)
03-17-2014 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
03-17-2014 7:35 AM


Cautionary note
Hi Frako,
I don't have time to look at the report itself at the moment, but just be aware that the Daily Mail is almost exclusively an alarmist and reactionary tabloid, that likes nothing better than to scare its well off, ageing and conservative readership. (Think Fox News on paper, but with an upper class English accent, an obsession about immigration, and a fond and hazy reminiscence about any stage in history pre the 1960s).
I'm not suggesting complacency about the issues they refer too - just an awareness that nothing sells an edition of the Daily Mail better than a good doomsday scenario ;-)

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 19 (722144)
03-17-2014 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
03-17-2014 7:35 AM


Greed Leads To Need
Interesting article, though the "alarmist" propensity of the Daily Mail has been noted. The caption under one of the photos says
quote:
In one scenario, a famine among 'Commoners' eventually causes the collapse of society, due to a loss of workers..
The study, led by mathematician Safa Motesharrei, goes on to say the the rich, or 'Elites,' may be responsible for both problems, the Guardian notes.
'...accumulated surplus is not evenly distributed throughout society, but rather has been controlled by an elite,' it says. 'The mass of the population, while producing the wealth, is only allocated a small portion of it by elites, usually at or just above subsistence levels.'
Just another observation that greed is unhealthy...the evil 2% and the poor impoverished masses.....
Milton Friedman always argued that greed is good, however.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 4 of 19 (722162)
03-17-2014 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
03-17-2014 7:35 AM


Why can't we just deal with issues because they are issues?

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 5 of 19 (722164)
03-17-2014 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
03-17-2014 12:19 PM


Why can't we just deal with issues because they are issues?
Because reasons.

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 6 of 19 (722166)
03-17-2014 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
03-17-2014 12:19 PM


Why can't we just deal with issues because they are issues?
Because the decisions we make as a species are often dictated by the bottom line; i.e. the economics of the situation. The Koch brothers spend money to counter Global Warming claims because if we attempted to deal with those issues, it would affect their profits.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 7 of 19 (722183)
03-17-2014 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
03-17-2014 7:35 AM


Evidently the end of civilization as we know it means our coastal cities will be inundated by tidal waves and the Empire State Building will become shorter but more massive (AbE: Whoops - forgot to note that it also means that rivers will produce tsunamis, since that tidal wave is crashing ashore from either the Hudson River or the East River):
Here's the link to the actual report: A Minimal Model for Human and Nature Interaction (Daily Mail or not, you have to give them credit for including the link). The report concludes:
Report writes:
The scenarios most closely reflecting the reality of our world today are found in the third group of experiments (see section 5.3), where we introduced economic strati cation. Under such conditions, we find that collapse is difficult to avoid.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : AbE.

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 8 of 19 (722186)
03-17-2014 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
03-17-2014 12:19 PM


ringo writes:
Why can't we just deal with issues because they are issues?
Because the young think they will live forever, whatever happens, and the old know they'll be dead before it does.
Aussi putain de riche de merde.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 9 of 19 (722193)
03-17-2014 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
03-17-2014 7:35 AM


It's good to see this in stark terms coming from a reputable organization. Not that it will do any good, wealth and politics being what they are. We have talked about this before in this forum. Anyone who is a student of economics, human psychology and history already knows the present course is doomed to failure. More economic disruption, more stress and hopelessness, widespread hunger, protest, riot, rebellion and war.
This would occur without the additional burdens of global climate change. Climate change will deepen the trauma and infest the entire world more rapidly.
To paraphrase Einstein, We know what weapons will be used in the coming war: nuclear. We also know what weapons will be used in the following war: sticks and stones.
The bright side is that if you have a comfortable chair you can lean over real far and kiss your ass goodbye before the end.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 10 of 19 (722205)
03-18-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Omnivorous
03-17-2014 7:55 PM


Omnivorous writes:
... and the old know they'll be dead before it does.
To be honest, that was my first thought.

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(6)
Message 11 of 19 (722222)
03-18-2014 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ringo
03-18-2014 11:50 AM


ringo writes:
Omnivorous writes:
... and the old know they'll be dead before it does.
To be honest, that was my first thought.
My maternal grandmother died at 107. We fought tooth and nail for decades because she was a hard, harsh woman with no use for me. At 100, she was hospitalized for the first time with a broken hip. She emerged a changed woman, sweet natured, charming, still sharp as a tack. I remarked at the time that if we lived long enough, we'd all become good.
I still vote, protest, donate and attempt persuasion in defense of this amazing blue-green world; but I also take a fugitive relief from being too old to see the worst of what is coming.
And I comfort myself with that last refuge of the despairing, a cosmic perspective: the swelling sun, the Big Rip, the Big Crunch, the Big Freeze, the wandering black hole, the X we don't see coming at the speed of light...
Everything dies, and the death of an old man (or planet or universe) is no tragedy.
But the unnecessary, premature destruction of beauty is about as close as this old pagan hippie comes to a definition of sin. When our planet reaps the whirlwind, those who sowed it with greed and denial will be long gone. Maybe if they knew they'd live long enough to suffer consequences...
In the meantime, I argue and advocate for measures that make sense on their own merits, often economic ones, because the denial has become nearly impenetrable and becomes more so when directly challenged.
To paraphrase Chandler, the deadliest traps are the ones we lay for ourselves. This one is a doozy.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 12 of 19 (722234)
03-18-2014 11:52 PM


I've found that scientists are lousy at persuading normal folks. And personally, I think we've passed the point of no return in regard to climate change. 'We'll just have to deal with it.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 13 of 19 (722237)
03-19-2014 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Omnivorous
03-18-2014 5:36 PM


Omni,
Thank you.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 14 of 19 (722286)
03-19-2014 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Taz
03-18-2014 11:52 PM


I've found that scientists are lousy at persuading normal folks. And personally, I think we've passed the point of no return in regard to climate change. 'We'll just have to deal with it.
Don't forget to put "I told you so" on your gravemarker.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 15 of 19 (722288)
03-19-2014 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Taq
03-19-2014 4:56 PM


Don't forget to put "I told you so" on your gravemarker.
A friend of mine wanted: "now I know, but you still don't"

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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