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Author Topic:   Cosmos with Neil DeGrass Tyson
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 206 (722821)
03-25-2014 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Diomedes
03-24-2014 3:17 PM


Re: Comment about the first episode
I got home late and tired, so I only had time to watch half of the third episode.
Tyson talk about the history of astronomy probably had Creationist more twisted than the entire evolution episode. Tyson talks matter of factly about tens of thousands of years of the man developing the ability to recognize patters, determine the passage of the seasons, and to identify false patterns and blame them on deities. By the time he got to the point of telling us where comets came from I'm sure Fox and National Geographic were fielding calls.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 206 (723053)
03-26-2014 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-21-2014 5:23 PM


Re: Isaac Newton
I would have to watch the little preview videos they had on the website to verify, but I think that I remember them mentioning Kepler. Please note, this was only about a one minute teaser video.
Well, the show had plenty of Newton (in cartoon form) and Kepler got his mention. We even got to see some of Newton's irrational and vindictive side along with his genius. But Halley was the real hero of the piece, which ultimately was about demystifying the origin of comets.
Tyson does lots more treading on Creationist toes in this show with no apology whatsoever.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 93 of 206 (723056)
03-26-2014 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by NoNukes
03-26-2014 8:47 AM


Re: Isaac Newton
Well, the show had plenty of Newton (in cartoon form) and Kepler got his mention
The latest episode was mostly around Newton and Halley, of Halley's Comet fame. Was quite interesting.
Tyson does lots more treading on Creationist toes in this show with no apology whatsoever.
He also coyly takes jabs at astrology and other similar nonsense. The Halley episode talked about how his discoveries and predictions about the motions of comets pretty much debunked centuries worth of idiotic superstitions and the attempts by con artists to use people's ignorance and fear to peddle their garbage.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 94 of 206 (723101)
03-26-2014 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by NoNukes
03-24-2014 1:21 PM


Re: Comment about the first episode
I did not see those arguments in time to respond, but looking back on it, I don't think the comments need a response because they are no defense at all. Burning someone alive because they are a dirtbag? Placing someone under house arrest for the rest of their lives after you force them to recant science under threat of death is cool? That's your effing defense?
When your best defense is, "At least we didn't light him on fire," you have already lost the argument.
The specifics and fine details can be argued back and forth, but that ignores the basic problem that we are trying to get at. In the church, you had a dogmatic authoritarian power structure that did not allow their proclamations to be challenged. On the other side, you have a new worldview that asks questions and challenges everything. That is the real clash. Galileo was put under house arrest because he dared to challenge the Pope's position on the position of the orbs in the Heavens.
In the third episode they continued on that theme, using the motto "Nullius in verba" from the Royal Society to once again stress that science challenges blind dogma.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 95 of 206 (723103)
03-26-2014 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by NoNukes
03-26-2014 8:47 AM


Re: Isaac Newton
Well, the show had plenty of Newton (in cartoon form) and Kepler got his mention. We even got to see some of Newton's irrational and vindictive side along with his genius. But Halley was the real hero of the piece, which ultimately was about demystifying the origin of comets.
I was hoping for more science and less history. All we hear about Newton's scientific discoveries is that gravity decreases with the square of distance, and he figured that out after coming up with a new type of math. That's it. The show then goes on to discuss how others used Newton's discoveries, the discoveries that the show never really describe in any detail.
It is certainly the producers' and director's decision to focus more on the history of science than the actual science, but I was hoping for a more science-centric focus.
Edited by Taq, : Fixed my horrible use of grammar.

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 206 (723116)
03-26-2014 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Taq
03-26-2014 4:26 PM


Re: Isaac Newton
It is certainly the producers' and director's decision to focus more on the history of science than the actual science, but I was hoping for a more science-centric focus.
I'd like that kind of show too, but I'm not the least surprised that we are not going to get it with Cosmos. I'm pretty sure that about 8 on the entire east coast would watch it.
If you want something short of a university course, but more meaty than Cosmos, I think you're into the realm of stuff you have to pay for. Drs. Filipenko, Tyson, Green, etc. all have those kind of video courses for sale.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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 Message 95 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 4:26 PM Taq has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1516 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 97 of 206 (723458)
04-01-2014 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by NoNukes
03-20-2014 11:37 AM


Episode 4
black holes and the age of the universe with a size measured in billions of light-years
http://www.cosmosontv.com/
brief discussion of Einstein.
Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 206 (723459)
04-01-2014 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by RAZD
04-01-2014 8:56 PM


Re: Episode 4
Your link is busted. I'll watch episode four in a few minutes.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by RAZD, posted 04-01-2014 8:56 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2014 1:58 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10194
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 99 of 206 (723463)
04-02-2014 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by RAZD
04-01-2014 8:56 PM


Re: Episode 4
black holes and the age of the universe with a size measured in billions of light-years
http://www.cosmosontv.com/...ontv/full-episodes/211631683935
brief discussion of Einstein.
There was a brief mention of YEC where they drew a circle with a 6,000 light year radius around our Sun, and they showed all of the universe that existed outside of that circle. It is something that creationists have been hearing for years, so not really something that is going to stun any of the posters here.
Like the previous episodes, they only touched the surface of the actual science and instead focused more on the scientists themselves. It's interesting history and all, but would love to see more science. They even mentioned that Einstein had these wonderful thought experiments, but they never really dug down into them. Missed opportunity, IMHO.
Production continues to be top notch, Tyson continues to be a competent (if nasal) host, and I can see how it would inspire awe in many. Just wish it conveyed knowledge as adeptly as it conveys wonder.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 206 (723476)
04-02-2014 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Taq
04-02-2014 12:04 AM


Re: Episode 4
It's interesting history and all, but would love to see more science.
Last week I re-watched episode 1 of the original series. (Let's not call it TOS). My impression was that it too was primarily history, with lots of show and tell. However, in that episode Carl did show us exactly how Eratosthenes, in 240 BC determined that the earth was spherical and measured the circumference to within a couple of percent.
I understand why the show cannot be filled with mathematics. But perhaps just a little detail on one or two items. Anything more and people are just going to switch off.
That brief mention of YEC seemed like a pretty thorough pounding to me. Nothing new for any of the posters here, but still a pretty explicit labeling of the idea of a 6-7000 year old universe as ridiculous. What struck me was that the debunking could have easily be omitted. It seems like the producers and Tyson are picking a fight.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 107 by arachnophilia, posted 04-03-2014 7:47 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(1)
Message 101 of 206 (723479)
04-02-2014 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by NoNukes
04-02-2014 10:12 AM


Re: Episode 4
NoNukes writes:
That brief mention of YEC seemed like a pretty thorough pounding to me. Nothing new for any of the posters here, but still a pretty explicit labeling of the idea of a 6-7000 year old universe as ridiculous. What struck me was that the debunking could have easily be omitted. It seems like the producers and Tyson are picking a fight.
Not sure the how many of the producers are involved in actively wanting to combat pseudoscience and scientific illiteracy. While I know that scientific literacy is one of Neil DeGrasse Tyson's big points when he speaks. He was asked if he wanted his children to be scientists and his reply was something along the lines of, "I don't care if theyear scientists, as long as they are happy. However, they will damn sure be scientifically literate." He then goes on to discuss how having a scientifically literate mind alters how you take in new information and fosters critical thinking.
Now, on the subject of Seth McFarlane as one of the producers, it is interesting to note that one of his primary reasons for backing the show (besides his love for it growing up) is to combat scientific illiteracy and pseudoscience in America. When you read what Seth has to say about our country, he seems sad to see the rampant dismissal of scientific evidence by the population because of lack of knowledge. He talks about how there are growing areas of pesudoscientific belief growing like wildfire in our country because of no effort to improve STEM education, areas like Anti-vaccine paranoia, global warming denialism, and the massive budget cuts to space exploration.
Interesting sometimes, such as in the case of Seth McFarlane, where you see this desire to remove scientific illiteracy from our culture. I did like Seth McFarlane's line in this interview of how cartoon fans and scientists all fall along the nerd scale so there is bound to be some overlap.
Seth McFarlane Interview, Los Angeles Times

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1516 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 102 of 206 (723487)
04-02-2014 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by NoNukes
04-01-2014 9:18 PM


Re: Episode 4
edited ... and try this
http://www.cosmosontv.com/watch/211631683935

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by NoNukes, posted 04-01-2014 9:18 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1516 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 103 of 206 (723488)
04-02-2014 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Taq
04-02-2014 12:04 AM


Re: Episode 4
There was a brief mention of YEC where they drew a circle with a 6,000 light year radius around our Sun, and they showed all of the universe that existed outside of that circle. ...
Heck most of the Milky Way (our galaxy for the undereducated) lies outside that circle.
Like the previous episodes, they only touched the surface of the actual science and instead focused more on the scientists themselves. It's interesting history and all, but would love to see more science. They even mentioned that Einstein had these wonderful thought experiments, but they never really dug down into them. Missed opportunity, IMHO.
And briefly touched on a virtually unknown (gasp) black scientist and HIS thought experiments on dark stars aka black holes.
And I wish they had balanced Bruno with Ibn al Haytham - The First Scientist
Edited by RAZD, : +

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 104 of 206 (723489)
04-02-2014 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by RAZD
04-02-2014 2:03 PM


Re: Episode 4
And I wish they had balanced Bruno with Ibn al Haytham - The First Scientist
Oh man, we've got some members who could benefit from taking his advice:
quote:
A devout Muslim, Ibn al-Haitham believed that human beings are flawed and only God is perfect. To discover the truth about nature, Ibn a-Haitham reasoned, one had to eliminate human opinion and allow the universe to speak for itself through physical experiments.
"The seeker after truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them," the first scientist wrote, "but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration."

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 913 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 105 of 206 (723490)
04-02-2014 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by NoNukes
04-02-2014 10:12 AM


Re: Episode 4
It seems like the producers and Tyson are picking a fight.
Kinda like Sagan did in the original?

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
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