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Author Topic:   Cosmos with Neil DeGrass Tyson
RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 206 (721717)
03-11-2014 9:16 AM


FOX Broadcasting Company | Full Episodes, Shows, Schedule#
the new series, where Neil follows and takes up the reins passed to him by Carl Sagen
Worth watching.
So what do the news outlets focus on
Breaking News Stories from US and Around the World | MSN News
what it says about religion ...
http://www.nbcnews.com/...at-discovery-could-be-yours-n48646
Obama Launches 'Cosmos': 'The Next Great Discovery Could Be Yours
That's surely going to rile up the GOP anti-science crowd.
Edited by RAZD, : added

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 206 (721719)
03-11-2014 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNosy
03-11-2014 10:22 AM


Re: Where does it go?
Due to the potential for wide ranging discussion, perhaps coffee house would be best

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 8 of 206 (721740)
03-11-2014 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Diomedes
03-11-2014 3:43 PM


Indeed.
Cosmos & the Creationists: Why Some People Hate Science on Television
quote:
There have been shamefully few instances of real scientists presenting real science on American television, but the Cosmos series was an exception--a stark exception, groundbreaking in the depth and detail of its explanations of the state of knowledge about our universe and our history. This series became a McLuhanesque event, uniting a global village of those fascinated by science with those who practice science. What’s not to like about helping the curious learn more about the universe? What could be better than presenting serious scientific information in such an accessible way that everyone comes away better informed? Who doesn’t love Cosmos?
Well, creationists for one. Many took deep umbrage at Cosmos’s existence and messages.
Answers in Genesis, perhaps the most influential creationist organization in the United States, inveighed against Sagan’s series ...
Creationists quickly seized on Sagan’s the cosmos is all that is quote as evidence that his PBS series was some dastardly and nefarious plot to expropriate taxpayer money in the service of promoting atheism. One such example of this line of reasoning came from the Discovery Institute ...
It’s amazingand somewhat disturbingthat in 2014 we’re still hearing the same anti-science arguments bandied around after 1980. But this shouldn’t come as much of a surprise; creationists haven’t had many original claims to make since the 1925 Scopes trial.
So we can expect a lot of sturm und drang without any real substance ... because some people happen to be outraged by the thought of people being free to think without blinders.

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 12 of 206 (721751)
03-11-2014 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by NoNukes
03-11-2014 9:56 PM


revival
It's more of a revival. Have you watched it yet? (link in Message 1)

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 35 of 206 (721893)
03-13-2014 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by NoNukes
03-13-2014 8:56 AM


Re: Poor Job
... What was the BBT error. ...
What I took away from this was that it was an explosion, there was no mention of expansion or inflation.
Nor any discussion of brane-theory (but then I wouldn't expect a review of alternate theories)

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 42 of 206 (721917)
03-13-2014 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by herebedragons
03-13-2014 11:50 AM


Re: Poor Job
For what? Scooby Doo or Cosmos?
Both have the same kind of cheap moving cardboard figure "animation" imho.
Curiously I keep thinking of Kramer ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 51 of 206 (722046)
03-14-2014 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by AZPaul3
03-14-2014 3:40 PM


target audience?
Keeping in mind that the average american is undereducated in science, to the point where ~1/4 think the sun orbits the earth.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 58 of 206 (722184)
03-17-2014 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Taq
03-17-2014 5:06 PM


Episode 2
Watched the second episode last night, and found it more pedestrian than the first. I liked what he did with the wolves using the evidence from the Russian silver fox experiments.
The graphics for the genetic stuff was entertaining, but Titan seemed a bit of a non-sequitur.

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 61 of 206 (722223)
03-18-2014 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Omnivorous
03-15-2014 8:59 AM


Creationist response fail
hooah writes:
Add some LSD and see if you get the same effect that Wizard of Oz supposedly has. I am sure some Feynman lectures work this way.
Everything works that way.
Certainly seems to be how a lot of creationism works.
Neil deGrasse Tyson Squashes Creationist Argument Against Science on National TV
A little bit hyperbolic, but ...
quote:
... Tyson made one of the best statements one could hope would sink into the minds of young and old viewers alike andmost importantlycreationists.
The astrophysicist proclaimed that there is no shame in admitting you do not know something and that the real shame is pretending to know everything.
Tyson made one of the best statements one could hope would sink into the minds of young and old viewers alike andmost importantlycreationists.
The astrophysicist proclaimed that there is no shame in admitting you do not know something and that the real shame is pretending to know everything.
Not that creationist will pay attention, but one tried (badly)
quote:
However, these facts mean nothing to creationists. Not long after "Cosmos" aired, Jay W. Richards, a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute (DI), a non-science, religious based foundation that fights to discredit evolution and replace it with faith based creationism, tweeted:
On eye evolution, the #Cosmos editors again failed to do a Google Search
Richards' Twitter missive linked to a Discovery Institute PDF download that supposedly debunks the evolution of the eye claim. Yet the PDF is nothing more than praise for the Christian Right pundit Ann Coulter and a lambasting of Richard Dawkins, DI's public enemy number one.
Now that PDF does contain some rambling arguments about the formation of the eye, but they are all old debunked arguments from incredulity and cite ancient articles instead of modern ones. None of the arguments even come close to demonstrating that they eye could not form by progressive natural means and certainly does not challenge the evidence that it can.
quote:
The time is now for a scientifically literate America to return, for scientific innovations to flow out of our borders and spread around the world. We can no longer take a backseat to the world of science and must return once again to the driver's seat.
That may be a little bit of hubris, but it certainly is time to move out of the neo-dark ages.
Here's another article related to the show:
Neil deGrasse Tyson on "Cosmos," How Science Got Cool, and Why He Doesn't Debate Deniers
quote:
Last Sunday's debut of Cosmos, the rebooted series from Fox and National Geographic, made television history. According to National Geographic, it was the largest global rollout of a TV series ever, appearing on 220 channels in 181 countries and 45 languages. And, yes, this is a science show we're talking about. You will have to actively resist the force of gravity in order to lift up your dropped jaw and restore a sense of calm to your stunned face.
Hopefully this is a sign that there are a lot of people that are starved for some real scientific knowledge.
quote:
... Neil deGrasse Tyson, who appeared on this week's episode of the Inquiring Minds podcast to talk about what it's like to fill Sagan's shoes (stream below). On the podcast, Tyson discussed topics ranging from what we know now about the cosmos that Sagan didn't (top three answers: dark matter and dark energy, the profusion of discovered exoplanets, and the concept of parallel universes, or the "multiverse") to why science seems to have gotten so supercool again. ...
... Tyson made clear on Inquiring Minds that he does not plan to follow in Sagan's footsteps in this respect (or for that matter, those of Bill Nye the Science Guy, who went straight into the creationists' den to debate evolution last month, ... "Carl Sagan would debate people on all manner of issues," said Tyson. "And I don't have the time or the energy or the interest in doing so. As an educator, I'd rather just get people thinking straight in the first place, so I don't have to then debate them later on." ...
Tyson certainly has plenty of criticism for those who would deny science. "I claim that all those who think they can cherry-pick science simply don't understand how science works," he explained on the podcast. "That's what I claim. And if they did, they'd be less prone to just assert that somehow scientists are clueless."
The stance of Cosmos, Tyson emphasizes, is not anti-religion but anti-dogma: "Any time you have a doctrine where that is the truth that you assert, and that what you call the truth is unassailable, you've got doctrine, you've got dogma on your hands. And so Cosmos isan offering of science, and a reminder that dogma does not advance science; it actually regresses it."
So open the windows and let in some fresh air eh?

we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 69 of 206 (722315)
03-20-2014 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by NoNukes
03-19-2014 9:53 PM


Evolution fact and theory
I spent some time thinking Tyson's words, and I'm going to have to disagree with you on this point. Tyson stuck to the party line on the relationship between guess work, theories and facts.
Tyson emphasized in particular, the distinction between guesswork, which is what people mean the criticize evolution as 'being just a theory' and real scientific theory. Whether or not you think he crossed the line when he talked about biological evolution as fact depends quite a bit on how you define theory and fact, and exactly what things about evolution you are talking about
Indeed. I like to make the following distinctions in these debates:
  1. the process of evolution1 has been observed to occur and is thus an observed fact.
  2. the process of phyletic speciation2 has been observed to occur and is thus an observed fact.
  3. the process of divergent speciation3 has been observed to occur and is thus an observed fact.
Both phyletic speciation and divergent speciation occur through the process of evolution over several generations.
The Theory of Evolution (ToE), stated in simple terms, is that the process of phyletic speciation, and the process of divergent speciation, are sufficient to explain the diversity of life as we know it, from the fossil record, from the genetic record, from the historic record, and from everyday record of the life we observe in the world all around us.
This is a testable theory, both via modern studies in the field and in the lab and via studies of the fossil record, and studies of the genetic record.


Notes:
  1. The process of evolution involves changes in the composition of hereditary traits, and changes to the frequency of their distributions within breeding populations from generation to generation, in response to ecological challenges and opportunities.
  2. The process of phyletic speciation involves the continued process of evolution over several generations, where the accumulation of changes from generation to generation becomes sufficient for the breeding population to develop combinations of traits that are observably different from the ancestral parent population (and because such phyletic change in breeding populations are a continuous process, determining when the changes are "sufficient" to be deemed a new species is a subjective observation, this is frequently called arbitrary speciation).
  3. The process of divergent speciation involves the division of a parent population into two or more reproductively isolated daughter populations due to loss of gene flow between the daughter populations, which are then are free to diverge from each other independently via the process of evolution.
Edited by RAZD, : clrty
Edited by RAZD, : to
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 70 of 206 (722318)
03-20-2014 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by RAZD
03-20-2014 7:56 AM


Colbert Report
Did you catch the Tyson interview on the Colbert Report?
imho he nails it.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 75 of 206 (722388)
03-20-2014 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by NoNukes
03-20-2014 11:37 AM


Advocating for Science
I think there will be a price to pay for the no holds bared position on evolution and the origin of the universe. It was not all that long ago that fear of a public backlash prevented any US distributor from taking on the Charles Darwin movie.
If that price is a more public discussion of the validity of science versus the ad hoc arguments of religious wing-nuts, then bring it.

we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 80 of 206 (722570)
03-22-2014 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by NoNukes
03-20-2014 11:37 AM


AIG Complaint (oh boo hoo)
Creationists Demand Airtime On 'Cosmos' For The Sake Of Balance
quote:
The Creationist group Answers In Genesis, which was already incensed about Neil deGrasse Tyson’s revival of Cosmos, is now complaining that the show lacks scientific balance because it fails to provide airtime for evolution deniers.
Danny Faulkner of Answers In Genesis and the Creation Museum appeared on The Janet Mefferd Show yesterday to criticize Cosmos for not providing airtime for Creationism adherents. When Mefferd asked if Cosmos will ever give a Creationist any time, Faulkner responded by lamenting that Creationists aren’t even on the radar screen for them, they wouldn’t even consider us plausible at all.
Perhaps because they are NOT plausible and reality isn't "fair" to pseudoscientific beliefs?
And if Danny wants "fair and balanced" presentation of views, then perhaps he should discuss opening up the AIG pages to actual posts on actual evolution, or to open the Creation "museum" to allow scientific presentation of why they are so wrong. Somehow I don't think that is going to happen ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 82 of 206 (722627)
03-23-2014 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by NoNukes
03-22-2014 10:21 PM


More whining from the pseudos
Science Deniers Are Freaking Out About Cosmos (Bill Moyers)
quote:
If you think the first episode of the new Fox Cosmos series was controversial (with its relatively minor mentions of climate change, evolution and the Big Bang), Sunday night’s show threw down the gauntlet. Pretty much the entire episode was devoted to the topic of evolution, and the vast profusion of evidence (especially genetic evidence) showing that it is indeed the explanation behind all life on Earth. At one point, host Neil deGrasse Tyson stated it as plainly as you possibly can: The theory of evolution, like the theory of gravity, is a scientific fact. (You can watch the full episode here.)
Denying evolution: Sunday’s episode of Cosmos was all about evolution. It closely followed the rhetorical strategy of Charles Darwin’s world-changing 1859 book,... Tyson also refuted one of the creationist’s favorite canards: the idea that complex organs, like the eye, could not have been produced through evolution.
Denying climate change: Thus far, Cosmos has referred to climate change in each of its two opening episodes, but has not gone into any depth on the matter. Perhaps that’s for a later episode. But in the meantime, it seems some conservatives are already bashing Tyson as a global warming proponent. Writing at the Media Research Center’s Newsbusters blog, Jeffrey Meyer critiques a recent Tyson appearance on Late Night With Seth Myers. Meyers and deGrasse Tyson chose to take a cheap shot at religious people and claim they don’t believe in science i.e. liberal causes like global warming, writes Meyer.
There is also an interview between Bill Moyers and Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Good stuff.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 829 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 85 of 206 (722667)
03-24-2014 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Percy
03-23-2014 2:58 PM


Re: More whining from the pseudos
Sadly he did.

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