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Author Topic:   The blurry line between religious and crazy
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 91 of 95 (729561)
06-13-2014 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by 1.61803
06-13-2014 12:09 PM


Re: Like Us
I honestly tell you now that if my superior officer told me to shoot or hang innocent non combatants I would have to face the consequences of my insubordination and be punished.
What if the consequences of your insubordination were
1) You get tortured to death
2) Your wife gets raped and tortured to death
3) Your children are drowned.
4) Anybody who was sympathetic to you was shot
5) The people you refused to shoot or hang, get shot and hanged.
I realize your point Modulous.
Do you realize mine?
Yes, the German military committed a largely disproportionate amount of moral crimes in the furtherance of their doomed goals.
Is anyone justified to reduce the German Military and the Natzis as "the bad guys" in WWII?
Yep. But if they are talking about it in a thread about 'blurry lines' they can expect their sharply drawn lines to receive some smudging
Or are we now to intellectually evolved for such lables.
Labels have utility.
But the scope and limitations of that utility should be recognized.
When you use broad labels to derive sweeping moral judgements about anyone in that label, you are almost certainly going to be making mistakes.
Simplifying complex situations in such a way helps learning and understanding at first, but it can hamper efforts to learn more (ie., it gives us a bias that can cloud our vision).
I am indeed a cold war relic.

first broadcast: 1975

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by 1.61803, posted 06-13-2014 12:09 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 92 of 95 (729595)
06-15-2014 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by herebedragons
06-13-2014 8:30 AM


Re: Like Us
Reminds me of a line in Star Wars.
"Join with me, and together we can defeat the Emperor and bring order to the Galaxy'"

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 93 of 95 (729639)
06-16-2014 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by ringo
06-13-2014 1:14 PM


Re: lables
Hi Ringo,
A democratic government is somehow justified in conducting a nuclear first strike because they believe it is in their best interest?
I agree there is no justification. It should be condemned.
But this in no way can be compared to the holocaust.
Which was perpetuated for racial purity, to liquidate a culture.
It was murder and intolerable cruelty on a personal level on a gargantuan scale, killing millions of people. Please do not attempt to make that comparison. As if your some kind of blameshifting child.
" Well you did this." "Well remember when you did this?"
I think a better comparison would be the decimation the American Indian people and culture for the sake of Manifest destiny.
The cowboys were the bad guys in this instance. imo.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 94 of 95 (729654)
06-16-2014 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by 1.61803
06-16-2014 10:10 AM


Re: lables
1.etc. writes:
But this in no way can be compared to the holocaust.
What can be compared is the attempt to justifiy something that is "in their best interest". People will always attempt to justify their actions and to put their own best interest above somebody else's. That's why there are no "good guys" or "bad guys".
1.6etc. writes:
I think a better comparison would be the decimation the American Indian people and culture for the sake of Manifest destiny.
The cowboys were the bad guys in this instance.
And the cowboys are us, which is what I've been saying all along. The Nazis are us too, if we're not careful.

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 Message 93 by 1.61803, posted 06-16-2014 10:10 AM 1.61803 has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 95 of 95 (729658)
06-16-2014 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by 1.61803
06-16-2014 10:10 AM


Re: lables
I would further say that the concept of 'preemptive strike' is wrong in all cased too.

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