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Author Topic:   Ukraine's future
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 61 of 65 (733583)
07-18-2014 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Theodoric
07-17-2014 4:54 PM


the BUK stops here
The kind of equipment Russia is sending to the separatists.
It was a rhetorical question asked shortly after the event was being reported, but yes that's what I think, but I'm not unbiased. It's also, for balance, the kind of equipment the Ukraine military possesses.
Anti-aircraft batteries capable of doing this were reported in the hands of the rebels last week.
It should be noted that as far as I can tell, the reports are not entirely conclusive at this point.
The SBU (obvious conflict of interest) released a recording that they say are separatists discussing receiving a BUK today. There is also this from ITAR TASS Russia News Agency:
quote:
ДОНЕЦК, 29 июня. /ИТАР-ТАСС/. Представители ополчения провозглашенной Донецкой народной республики (ДНР) взяли под контроль воинскую часть №А-1402 противовоздушной обороны (ПВО) с зенитно-ракетными комплексами (ЗРК) "Бук". Эту информацию ИТАР-ТАСС подтвердили в пресс-службе ДНР.
Donetsk, June 29. / ITAR-TASS /. Militia representatives proclaimed the People's Republic of Donetsk (DNR) took control of the military part number A-1402 air defense (AD) with anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) 'Beech {BUK}'. This information was confirmed by ITAR-TASS, the press service of the DNI.
If we believe that happened on June 29 or that this wasn't the date that Russia gave the weapons over, or incompetently lost control of one or the weapon used wasn't a BUK or whatever other version of reality we're huffing. In any event ITAR-TASS is a bit Fox-Newsy as far as I can tell, its director being described as ″the Kremlin's New Chief Propagandist″.
I'm surprised that this event hasn't sparked much in the way of discussion, to be honest. Is everyone just waiting for more concrete information to argue about, is it disinterest or something else?
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Theodoric, posted 07-17-2014 4:54 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Diomedes, posted 07-18-2014 2:31 PM Modulous has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 62 of 65 (733584)
07-18-2014 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Modulous
07-18-2014 2:09 PM


Re: the BUK stops here
I'm surprised that this event hasn't sparked much in the way of discussion, to be honest. Is everyone just waiting for more concrete information to argue about, is it disinterest or something else?
Funny you should mention that. I was actually considering starting a thread about this, but the primary reason I held off is I was waiting for more details. Our 24 hr media has a tendency to jump the gun, so I didn't want to start a discussion until I had something more concrete.
If you look at the current coverage, CNN has already broken out their fancy 3-D CGI and MSNBC has already stepped on its own foot when one of their anchors, Krystal Ball (hippie parents anyone??) let a prank caller onto the air claiming to be a Sgt. in the Ukrainian Military.
On a side note, has anybody locked down the nuke plants in the Ukraine? They blew one sky high just from a safety test in the 80s. God only knows what might happen to them in a civil war!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Modulous, posted 07-18-2014 2:09 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Modulous, posted 07-18-2014 3:12 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 63 of 65 (733586)
07-18-2014 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Diomedes
07-18-2014 2:31 PM


Re: the BUK stops here
If you look at the current coverage, CNN has already broken out their fancy 3-D CGI and MSNBC
Not my channels. I'm more of a BBC kind of guy
has already stepped on its own foot when one of their anchors, Krystal Ball
I should point out that according to wiki she is 'a businesswoman, certified public accountant, and a co-host on the MSNBC show The Cycle. She was the Democratic Party nominee for United States Congress in Virginia's 1st congressional district in the 2010 election, losing to Republican Rob Wittman.'
Krystal Ball (hippie parents anyone??)
A physicist, actually.
let a prank caller onto the air
I'm pretty sure she didn't vet the call and greenlight it to go on the air. I think she was a bit busy for that.
claiming to be a Sgt. in the Ukrainian Military.
Her only 'mistake' was missing the 'out of Howard Stern's ass' line, but ignoring what seem to be perceptual errors like that is part of her job - it was the editors that didn't cut him off in time to avoid the 'dumbass' remark. He should have carried on the interview as normal - that would have been much funnier than a cheap jibe.
He had a good American accent for a Ukrainian sergeant, didn't he?
But your point remains. Hungry for novelty, the news media is not bothering with presenting a developed story but instead is more or less forced by being 24 hours into a position of continuously covering a developing story and consequently there's a lot of stupid filler jabber and 'reactions'.
On a side note, has anybody locked down the nuke plants in the Ukraine?
There is only Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant that is of concern. It's not in the hands of the separatists and the one attempt to gain control that has been made was prevented by police, presumably having locked down the nuclear power plant in an unstable region.
They blew one sky high just from a safety test in the 80s.
The Russian separatists did not cause Chernobyl. That was a series of things, including Soviet disinclination to spend money on safety. If the right safety systems were installed before they started using the nuclear power plant, they wouldn't have had to have test them while it was generating 700 million Watts during operating hours, for example.
In short - modern Ukrainian power plants are probably more safe than early 80s Soviet builds, only one of them is close to the action and they seem to be on it.
God only knows what might happen to them in a civil war!
At this juncture, it's not a civil war affecting them that we should be most worried about.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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 Message 62 by Diomedes, posted 07-18-2014 2:31 PM Diomedes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by 1.61803, posted 07-22-2014 10:50 AM Modulous has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 64 of 65 (733854)
07-22-2014 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Modulous
07-18-2014 3:12 PM


Re: the BUK stops here
Modulous writes:
this juncture, it's not a civil war affecting them that we should be most worried about.
Then what are you thinking is the biggest worry?
Mine is the fact that Putin could light a big fat cigar up and say in public: " Ya, I did it. So what? Whattya gonna do about it?"

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Modulous, posted 07-18-2014 3:12 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Modulous, posted 09-14-2014 5:42 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 65 of 65 (736914)
09-14-2014 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by 1.61803
07-22-2014 10:50 AM


Re: the BUK stops here
this juncture, it's not a civil war affecting them that we should be most worried about.
Then what are you thinking is the biggest worry?
I emphasized the word 'civil' to show that my view is that its a 'war' they should be most worried about. And given Russia's antics, it's increasingly looking like a war, just not Total War.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by 1.61803, posted 07-22-2014 10:50 AM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
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