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Author Topic:   SCIENCE: -- "observational science" vs "historical science" vs ... science.
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 55 of 614 (718695)
02-08-2014 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by mike the wiz
02-08-2014 8:18 AM


whether weather can weather the wither
Is predicting the future even more dodgy than the past?
After all, nobody has seen the future. The future has left no evidence yet.
Therefore weather forecasts are nonsense?
Logically this is deductive PROOF there is a value-difference.
I guess it depends on the claims being made. All extant life is related, is an observable claim that can be tested in the present. If it was true, it does necessitate something of the past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by mike the wiz, posted 02-08-2014 8:18 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by mike the wiz, posted 02-08-2014 12:36 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(3)
Message 59 of 614 (718699)
02-08-2014 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by mike the wiz
02-08-2014 12:36 PM


Re: whether weather can weather the wither
I don't know what you mean by "observable", this sounds like Dawkins' sound-bite that people deride. That you can see an event you are proposing took place.
I mean one can look at evidence and see it yourself. Presently.
I am not saying I can see any event.
You can't prove logically, a relation between lifeforms from looking at events you can't observe.
Who cares about proving that logically? Almost everything we know cannot be proved logically. We can however, observe evidence, perform tests that confirm our ideas about that evidence, and make reasoned deductions about how that evidence came to be.
Let me show you an uncontroversial example. Based on real events. Imagine you had a brother who was kidnapped when you were babies. And let us imagine someone comes to you later in life and claims to be your brother. Neither of you can 'look at events that you can't observe'. But you can look at evidence you can observe. Your physical similarities, and maybe behavioural similarities. These days, you can go further and test DNA. This was enough to settle the issue of the gypsy girl in the article I linked to.
If you were referring to inductive, fragmentary evidence, then what you are observing is extinct creatures that you propose were related.
I'm talking about extant life, not extinct life.
You're therefore equivocating with the term, "observable".
If the results of DNA tests are not observable, then please correct me.

You didn't answer my question about future events such as the weather.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by mike the wiz, posted 02-08-2014 12:36 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 137 of 614 (730593)
06-29-2014 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Faith
06-27-2014 3:28 AM


Assertion: (Why bother with an Hypothesis?) Just by comparing two DNA strands it's possible to know the common ancestor of two different species and how long ago that common ancestor lived.
Assumption: The whole ToE, that is, all species are related, one descended from another.
Observation: Two different DNA strands, some portion thereof unidentified.
Method: Subjective interpretation of similarities between two different genomes.
Replication or testing: None possible, but if you know what one person's interpretation was then you can just have the same interpretation.
Evidence: None, it's all mental conjuring.
Conclusion: What a joke.
Which papers are you including in this review? Don't worry, I know you are just trying to frame it in such a way as to look bad rather than accurately describing the science.
Let's deconstruct this paper
Hypothesis: The clock-like accumulation of sequence differences in some genes provides an alternative method by which the mean divergence time can be estimated.
Estimates from single genes may have large statistical errors, but
multiple genes can be studied to obtain a more reliable estimate of
divergence time
Observation: 658 genes representing 207 species
Method: Calibrated the clock to a small number of known divergent times from fossil evidence and then used the clock to infer divergences of the other species and compare them to the fossil record dates.
Replication or testing: Here's how to find the genes we used go knock yourselves out.
Evidence: Here are the results of our statistical analysis based on hundreds of genes being compared.
Conclusion: The molecular clock is in broad agreement with radiometric/fossil dating, providing us with an alternative method to date divergences.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 06-27-2014 3:28 AM Faith has not replied

  
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