|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Darwin on the Savage races | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Hitler allegedly was a big fan of Darwin's clearly racist views in that he was able to "scientifically supported" exterminate the "sub human" Jew in the aid of furthering evolution with the full support of Darwin's "science". Who alleges it? And I bet I can make a stronger case that Houston Chamberlains German nationalistic work in Die Grundlagen had more influence on Hitler than anything Darwin said. Hitler believed in the immutability of the species. 'The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger.' he said, so it's clear that while they may have superficially agreed on some things (and I see no reason to see Darwin agreeing with Hitler about the necessity for the Aryan race to eradicate the world of Jews), they disagreed more fundamentally on others. And how does that make Darwin's comments fascist?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
|
Welcome to the fray, Jaf. What's that mean?
One of the things I like about Quotes, is that they can speak so much to us. All the different things that a quote can be interpreted to be saying makes them really impactful. One of the things I *don't* like about quoting, though, is that I don't feel like I get a good sense of what the author was actually saying. All those impactful interpretations really cloud the message, in my experience. So, for that, I look to context.
Darwin predicted that around about now "At some future period, not very distant, as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly (almost certainly, a favourite evolutionist interpretation of a proven fact) exterminate and replace throughout the world, the savage races" Where can I find the context for that quote? Still though, what do you think Darwin's *point* was? What was he trying to say?
Rather non PC but since it's science might I ask how potentially modern day members of the savage races who survived Darwin's fascist racist blatherings particularly evolutionists, feel about this? I think he was right, and it already happened. Prolly still is happening.
Further more might I ask why musings like this are not equally mocked as wistful fables? Wait, did you thing that we'd think he was wrong?
"For my own part I would soon be descended from that heroic little monkey who braved his dreaded enemy to save the life of his keeper, or that old baboon, who, descending the mountains, carried away in triumph his young comrade from a crowd of astonished dogs - as from a savage... " Darwin quotes from The Decsent of Man Ah, now that one I could find. So let's look at the context:
quote: Okay, so the part you quoted:
quote: ...gets cut off mid-sentence. Here's the whole quote:
quote: And yeah, geez, he really tears into those savages. I can see how you can see racism there. But what is the point he is making?
quote: You might feel like you've earned the hand that you've been dealt, but really you just got lucky to land there.
quote: And sticking strictly to the facts as observed, despite all the bias we have from being so awesome:
quote: We all came from those savages that he tore in to. The point is that some people may seem to be of a lower quality than we think we are, but we all evolved through those phases. He's just contrasting "them" with "us" when he tears into them. It separates the reader from the group he's describing so that he can later say; 'but wait, you're actually in that group as well'. He goes on further to say that it wasn't anything that any of us did, to get us into this awesome group that we think we're in, we all just happened to land here by luck. Now, can you see that the original portion you quoted, that you have to admit had been chopped up a bit, was made to sound more racist than the actual point that Chuck was making? Do you think what he really was saying is as racist as you were originally interpreting it to be?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
|
Do you think what he really was saying is as racist as you were originally interpreting it to be? I think the whole purpose of that opening post was to try to trash Darwin, and hence to discredit the theory of evolution. Unfortunately for creationists, it doesn't work that way in the sciences. In the sciences you need evidence. If creationists had evidence I'm sure we would have seen some by now...Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jaf Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 150 Joined: |
Imagine having to do th.e same thing with the bible when atheists misquote it. But thanks for going to thr trouble. I like quotes too, coz they are quotes. What do think he meant by savage races?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
What do think he meant by savage races? "Savage" denotes a cultural condition. It has nothing to do with race, intelligence or much of anything else.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jaf Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 150 Joined: |
What did he mean by savage races, common,the man said he would rather be a baboon or a monkey than a savage, and I quoted him, it's funny I'm now being accused of interpreting it racially. Darwin referred to half the human race as savages, you can't defend that by attacking me for pointing out.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3
|
jaf writes: I typed it word for word one finger at a time On my ipad I will have you know. I did clean the screen afterwards. Oh, well, there's no need for that. Just highlight your quote-mine, carefully avoiding any context that conflicts with your intended distortion, then copy, then click to your target and paste. If your method requires no thought, why waste any energy, either? I feel an itch of curiosity when I see creationists use the kind of methods you employ--e.g., defaming an intellectual opponent with distorted quote mines irrelevant to the intellectual conflict itself. Why do you expect that to work? What would it working even mean? Say you persuade me that Darwin was a racist (he wasn't, not in the sense we use the word). Do you suppose I'll repudiate ideas my power of reason evaluates and accepts due to evidence? Most of all, though, I wonder at a state of belief that combines the notion that one's kind was created supernaturally by a God, in His image, with the idea that what is required of them is to lie, defame and distort in His service. You probably can't help me with that."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jaf Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 150 Joined: |
He meant aborigine people and black people. Not cultures
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jaf Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 150 Joined: |
The quote is the quote, are you a savage by any chance? I can help you to see that your thoughts on God and his people does not disprove either exist.
Edited by Jaf, : No reason given. Edited by Jaf, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jaf Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 150 Joined: |
What's with the off topic whining?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
What did he mean by savage races, common,the man said he would rather be a baboon or a monkey than a savage, and I quoted him, it's funny I'm now being accused of interpreting it racially. Darwin referred to half the human race as savages, you can't defend that by attacking me for pointing out. In the post where I defined "savage" as a cultural condition I didn't refer to you at all. But in a previous post I did attack you for your opening post which attempts to discredit the theory of evolution by discrediting Darwin himself. That's a typical creationist tactic relying on "appeal to authority" rather than evidence. I note you haven't responded to that one.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
He meant aborigine people and black people. Not cultures Can you document that?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jaf Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 150 Joined: |
If there was any evidence you and I wouldn't be here. Your still off topic.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jaf Member (Idle past 3694 days) Posts: 150 Joined: |
Can you document your statement about what you "think" he meant by savage races? No you can't, so stay on topic and off being petty and attacking and annoying, are you a troll?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
If there was any evidence you and I wouldn't be here. Your still off topic. If you mean evidence for the theory of evolution, you'd be wrong. And I know something about that evidence. Fossil man and human osteology were half of my study for the Ph.D. exams in Anthropology some years back. And I'll let the moderators determine who is on and off topic.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024