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Member (Idle past 349 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is there any such thing as an absolute? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
In essence, are you suggesting that a personal decision to believe an absolute way is better than an edict or demand compelling you to do so?
Is it a human right to decide whether something is absolute or not in terms of belief?
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Phat writes: I believe that Gods reality is an unchangeable absolute, but due to the allowance of satan and alternate "reality" or perception we are allowed to make up opposites. This of course was initially made possible by God having allowed free will. Could very well be. Or not.That's the thing... we seem to be at a disadvantage to ever know for sure. If we can't know for sure... then it would seem that we cannot determine whether or not it actually is absolute.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Phat writes: In essence, are you suggesting that a personal decision to believe an absolute way is better than an edict or demand compelling you to do so? Here's an example: Your house needs to be painted.Who would you rather have paint it?
I take it you can see the difference?I always think that a personal decision is more meaningful than following an order. Regardless of whether or not the way is absolute (whatever that would mean).
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dadman Member (Idle past 3662 days) Posts: 45 From: wichita Kansas USA Joined: |
absolutely not . . . lol
Edited by dadman, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPhat, : removed spam
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 349 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
If there was absoulte truth, would it set us absolutely free? I would say that knowing any truth allows you to be freer than you would be if you did not know it.
What is absolute freedom? I suppose that absolute freedom would equate to god.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 349 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
But there are many people where knowing certain experiences is not better than not knowing them. There is no question that we may wish that the truth were sometimes different but this is separate from wanting to know what the truth is. I have heard that if ignorance is bliss then it is foolish to be wise but I don't buy it.
Or... let's say you have the opportunity to know what all insects around the world are thinking at all times. Would you want such a gift? We are not talking about a Johnny Neumonic overload where your nose starts bleeding and your brains turn to mush. We are talking about truths that we can arrive at and comprehend.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes: We are talking about truths that we can arrive at and comprehend. Right, and then I agree. If we're going to attempt to make absolute statements... the scope they encompass needs to be clarified. "It is always better to know than not to know" is too broad and subjective (what's "better"?) to be an absolute statement. "It is better to know about truths we can arrive at and comprehend rather than to be ignorant of them in the context of understanding our freedom."...is a statement that's getting much closer to being something I'd be comfortable with calling "absolute." I'm not saying your idea is wrong, I'm just saying that qualification/clarification is important if we're going to be saying a certain statement is "absolute."
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes:
So both truth and freedom are relative.
ringo writes:
I would say that knowing any truth allows you to be freer than you would be if you did not know it. If there was absoulte truth, would it set us absolutely free?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: So both truth and freedom are relative. Oh oh...sounds like I hear another protest against being relatively unable to proclaim ones own absolute hence rendering true freewill a farce.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There's no need to "render" free will a farce; it is a farce.
Oh oh...sounds like I hear another protest against being relatively unable to proclaim ones own absolute hence rendering true freewill a farce.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If God exists and is the Creator of all things seen and unseen,
should He allow humans the right to be autonomous in regards to our beliefs and philosophy? Why or why not? As far as science goes, everything is tentative anyway...awaiting further information. We could say that certain things are absolutes...such as the laws of gravity...assuming we allow for new absolutes to erase old absolutes as our knowledge increases.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The question isn't "should" He but "would" He. If God exists and is the Creator of all things seen and unseen, should He allow humans the right to be autonomous in regards to our beliefs and philosophy? Why would a God not want us to be autonomous? What effect could our autonomy have on Him? Why would He worry about our autonomy and not the tapeworms'?
Phat writes:
Anything that can be erased or replaced is not absolute.
We could say that certain things are absolutes...such as the laws of gravity...assuming we allow for new absolutes to erase old absolutes as our knowledge increases.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 349 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
So both truth and freedom are relative. I thought that everything was relative to the observer. That's why I made the point in the OP that if 'absolute' is something that is not relative to anything else then it is impossible by definition. The fact that a thing may look different to different observers does not mean that the thing does not have absolute qualities.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1504 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
ringo writes: Hi Ringo, I suppose trumpeting ethereal elephants are forcing you by gun point to post that message against your will. There's no need to "render" free will a farce; it is a farce."You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
protoTypical writes: I would point out that this is a good reason why God would have hypothetically allowed an alternate reality....if for nothing else than to showcase His absoluteness. This alternate reality can be described as Satan, but it can also be described as "self". True communion allows a loss of self as the community becomes one. True selfishness would justify autonomy as a desirable trait. Does that make sense?
That's why I made the point in the OP that if 'absolute' is something that is not relative to anything else then it is impossible by definition.
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