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Author Topic:   Why the Flood Never Happened
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1581 of 1896 (717277)
01-25-2014 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1580 by Faith
01-25-2014 6:00 PM


Re: Ancient tablet reveals new details about Noah's Ark prototype
This has nothing to do with the arguments for the Flood, it's a side issue about the Flood stories around the world that support the fact that there WAS a worldwide Flood.
So do stories about witches, vampires, elves, trolls, unicorns..... I guess those are all fact too?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1580 by Faith, posted 01-25-2014 6:00 PM Faith has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1621 of 1896 (717350)
01-26-2014 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1613 by Faith
01-26-2014 12:21 PM


Re: the usual radiometric flimflam
No, scientists are not trained to suspect the Theory of Evolution or the Old Earth, sorry, there is nothing but affirmation of those theories and ridicule of objectors to them. The bias against creationism is way too strong.
Well yea cause its not science i imagine it has the same bias as homoeopathy, spirit channelling, and the like.
LOK there are some 40 dating methods that point to an old earth all working on different principles. And no dating method points to a young earth except the add up the lifespans of the people in the bible and you get the age of the earth method of course, i wonder why anyone using that method is ridiculed in the scientific community.
TOE has been suspect and under attack for as long as it has existed and guess what all your attacks just made it stronger so much so that it is now a fact and a theory.
Your alternative "theory" creationism should be ridiculed Magic man dun it is not a scientific theory nor will it ever be. And it goes against everything the scientific community has built up in the past 500 years.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1613 by Faith, posted 01-26-2014 12:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1635 by Faith, posted 01-26-2014 10:50 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 1653 of 1896 (717419)
01-27-2014 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1635 by Faith
01-26-2014 10:50 PM


Re: The nature of science, theory etc.
Funny how nobody gets the point about how you can't verify anything from the prehistoric past.
We have glimpses of the perehistoric past, we have fossils, we have samples from ice cores, ... We have observations we dont have any observations about your god.
s long as the illusion is upheld that it IS a scientific theory that IS substantiated, there's really no point in any of this discussion.
But it is it can be tested, observed and it has not yet been proven wrong. Magic man dun it does not share these qualities.
Just as a side point, Rox posted a link to an article way back there that described Geology as an interpretive science (Geological Reasoning: Geology as an interpretive and historical science) and made it clear that it's usually regarded as less than a genuine science for that reason. Which is really all I've been saying. The writer isn't interested in my point of view of course, he's actually trying to defend it as a mode of philosophical reasoning, which I find absurd in another way, basing it on subjective interpretation as a scientific method, which is useless for science OR for philosophy it seems to me. Anyway it highlights what I've been trying to say about THE problem with the sciences of the past, it just absurdly tries to defend it as rational.
Sure we may have some problems with the experimentation part of geology but we still have OBSERVATIONS something that magic man dun it lacks. We have no observations that point to a worldwide flood though if there where one we should be seeing the evidence it left behind EVERYWHERE. Remember how science works one fact proving your theory wrong and your theory is wrong either amend it or abandon it.
The flood was what 4000 years ago well the city of Faiyum is 6000 years old and has been continuously inhabited during that time impossible if it was supposed to be wiped out by a flood 2000 years after its foundation.
Amend your theory or abandon it.
Ice core samples show no evidence there was a world wide flood one would expect a whole layer of sediments in EVERY ice core sample.
Amend your theory or aboandon it.
The polar ice caps should not be there if there was a world wide flood such an amount of water would brake them apart and they would take a whole lot longer then 4000 years to regrow.
Amend your theory or abandon it.
No traces of wrold wide flood on the sea floor. You would expect to see n uncharacteristic amount of terrestrial detritus, different grain size distributions in the sediment, a shift in oxygen isotope ratios.
Amend your theory or abandon it.
Coral clocks. Corals can be dated do to their daily growth these clocks go back way before the flood agree with ALL other dating methods.OH And they where not whipped out by a flood nor is any change visible that would correspond with a global flood.
Amend your theory or abandon it.
...
I could go on all day you see not only does the flood theory have a problem of having NO evidence to support it. Tonnes of evidence show there was no worldwide flood. Now on the one hand you bash a legitimate science for not being scientific on the other you promote a "theory" that has been debunked 200 years ago.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1635 by Faith, posted 01-26-2014 10:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1655 by herebedragons, posted 01-27-2014 11:35 AM frako has not replied
 Message 1698 by Faith, posted 01-29-2014 5:01 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1679 of 1896 (717561)
01-29-2014 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1678 by Heathen
01-29-2014 5:11 AM


Re: dinosaur again
Yea sometimes i think creationists are just trolls or poe's, but thats mainly because i have faith in human intelligence.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1678 by Heathen, posted 01-29-2014 5:11 AM Heathen has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1682 by RAZD, posted 01-29-2014 7:51 AM frako has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(2)
Message 1720 of 1896 (717656)
01-30-2014 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1698 by Faith
01-29-2014 5:01 PM


Re: The nature of science, theory etc.
We have the same observations of the past and we see do the Flood there, everywhere as I've said, as you should too, but you are seeing through your Theory, not with open eyes. I haven't claimed that you should see God in nature.
yea but one should see the effects of the flood in nature and one should see those effects EVryWHErE !
No ice core sample anywhere shows that that area was flooded no sediments, no different oxygen isotopes, no fractures, nothing that one might expect. Conclusion those areas where not flooded. ergo no global flood.
Coral reafs cn be dated by counting their daily growth rings, some are over 100 thousand years old, yet they could have never survived a flood of that magnitude, and they would show clear signs that there was a flooding disaster. But they provide no such evidence ergo there was no global flood.
i can go on but its pointless as you will brush these off and go on babbling you mumbo jumbo magic theories while simultaneously bashing legitimate scientific fields.
But even a child can see that the flood storey is just that a storey. If you cant see how it clashes with reality you are either a troll, mentally handicapped or so brainwashed that you reject reality and substitute your own. In either case a debate would be pointless.
But on a side note can you answer how noah transported human exclusive parasites?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1698 by Faith, posted 01-29-2014 5:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1722 by Faith, posted 01-30-2014 3:25 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 1724 of 1896 (717663)
01-30-2014 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1722 by Faith
01-30-2014 3:25 AM


Re: The nature of science, theory etc.
ok why wont you tell me why there is no evidence in ice core samples that would support a global flood?
Why is there no evidence in coral reefs that would support a global flood.
Why are the polar caps still there a flood would brake them apart and they would take way more then 4000 years to reform.
In this case absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Unless you can explain how a global flood missed every glacier known to man, missed the pole, missed all corral reefs ... And how can it be global even though it missed such large parts of the world.
And you can also anwser how Noah managed to transport all those human exclusive parasites without his whole crew and him dying?
To anyone with an iq of 70 or more that has not been brainwashed and can see reality for what it is the flood is nothing more then a story. But nothing can convince you not even a time machine would do it. If you feal this statement is wrong what kind of evidence do you think would convince you that there was no flood. What would fe have to find or not find to make you see reality?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1722 by Faith, posted 01-30-2014 3:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1726 by Faith, posted 01-30-2014 4:00 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1728 of 1896 (717667)
01-30-2014 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1726 by Faith
01-30-2014 4:00 AM


Re: The nature of science, theory etc.
I'm sure there is only I'm not up on it.
Well im sure there isnt should i fed ex you some ice core samples?
Again I'm sure there is.
Just the fact that there are coral reefs shows there was no global flood. most cant survive deep water, some can go to extremes of 2000 meeter's 6600 feet those would die off to, a 2000 meeter flood is not high enough to flood everything. And even if they somehow magically survived evidence of a flood would still be seen. Oh and you can date corals by counting their rings similarly to a tree though some form a ring every day making them more precise.
There were no polar caps before the Flood; they formed as a result of the Flood.
Oh how did they grow so quickly then?
The glaciers also didn't exist before the Flood but formed afterward.
um you do know that valleys carved by glaciers show that there was not just one glacier that passed trough the valley some glacial valleys are already carved out but still have a glacier slowly going down the pre carved valley millimetres at a time. How can that bee if the glacier was supposed to be made by the flood?
Noah was of the early men who lived nearly a thousand years, still with extraordinary health and vitality even after the Fall. All kinds of diseases we are vulnerable to were unheard of for them, but began to proliferate after the Flood.
So god made those parasites sometime after the flood? or did they evolve from some non parasitic thingies?
What concerns me is how someone like you could be brought to see reality.
Show me ice core samples from all over the world containing sediments that date to the same time period and i might be inclined to believe there was some global flood. Find me a bunny rabbit dating 3,5 billion years and i will deny the theory of evolution. Make god have a speech during the super bowl commercials and have him preform a miracle like every family in the world having food on their table and il believe in him.
What would i have to find or not find to make you believe there was no flood?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1726 by Faith, posted 01-30-2014 4:00 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1730 by Faith, posted 01-30-2014 6:21 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 1742 of 1896 (717693)
01-30-2014 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1730 by Faith
01-30-2014 6:21 AM


Re: The nature of science, theory etc.
The strata the strata the strata. Nothing else could have made the strata.
You mean this could only be made by a flood ?
i have a simple experiment for you go fill a nice big jar with some rocks, some dirt, some sand .... all the stuff you can find in the strata fill it with water then shake up the content nice and good. Then wait for it all to settle down then compare the results with this picture and tell me if the flood experiment you did conforms with it. Its a simple experiment our kids do in the 3d grade.
The incredible abundance of fossils around the planet.
And how the flood neatly arranged them to fit the evolutionary model right the less complex beasties down in the bottom and more complex ones up top. And no single case of it being otherwise. I know the answer it must have been magic water.
The wrecked condition of the planet.
How is the planet wrecked apart from clearly human activities like pollution?
The lack of tectonic effects for some hundreds of millions of years as seen in the unruffled strata for that period on OE diagrams. Proves those hundreds of millions of years didn't exist.
I guess the flood was making layers of strata at an angle it was magical so it could have done.
Flat slabness of the sedimentary rocks in the strata: proves they were laid down in water, all of them despite claims they couldn't have been, and that none of them was ever at the surface for any great length of time. We'll just have to explain the angle of repose somehow
Sedimentary rocks are types of rock that are formed by the deposition of material at the Earth's surface and within bodies of water
From wikipedia yea sedimentary rocks where made in water we know that its those pesky unscientific geologist that discovered that.
The absurdity of the OE scenarios of time periods attached to sedimentary rocks.
Well one side uses measurements and about 40 different dating methods that all agree to old ages. Your side uses the bible by adding up the lifespans of the books characters. Who do you think is being scientific here? And if your method is viable why not just use the Sumerian demigod kings lifespans they agree with our findings more. Some lived for hundreds of thousands of years.
unk DNA (Massive genetic death as a result of the bottleneck) Also the percentage of heterozygosity in the human genome is no doubt much lower than it was before the Flood, but unfortunately there's no way to prove this. (It's probably evidence more for the Fall and against the ToE than the Flood anyway)
Junk DNA has nothing to do with bottlenecks we see a bottle neck in a population by the amount of different aliases the population has in the DNA. Junk DNA is something you would expect if you believe in the TOE as most mutations are natural they provide no benefit or harm so they don't get weeded out.
These things may not be evident yet but I'd predict: Increasing genetic diseases, increasing mutations, increasing species extinctions.
Thats like saying there will be wars and famine LOL there will always be genetic desieses unless we start manipulating our genome. Mutations will have the same rate, well maby a slight increase do to man made pollution or if the poles start to shift again and we get less protection from the harmfull sun. You know the polar reversals that we have evidence for in molten rock so many that if the earth was 6000 years old i think one would have to happen every day Including the volcanic eruption that would save the information where north was at the time of the eruption.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1730 by Faith, posted 01-30-2014 6:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1782 of 1896 (717781)
02-01-2014 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1780 by Faith
02-01-2014 5:52 AM


Re: faults and erosion
The strata WERE all laid down flat, in fact that is a principle of Geology, HBD, original horizontality. What the cross sections show is that they remained horizontal in that there were was no TECTONIC disturbance to them, and that WOULD have been depicted because they depict it where it DID occur.
How where these layers not tectonicly disturbed? Or did the flood deposit vertical layers. Just because the cross sections of the grand canyon are all flat that doe sent mean the whole world is the same. You even have places where the all the layers of strata are completely turned around.
This is all nothing but an exercise in obfuscation. You all make up objections to any point I make but you've never actually ANSWERED my points. You think you've answered me when you've only answered a straw man, your own misunderstanding. If in small details you've answered this or that, and I'm not sure, there has never been an opportunity to discuss it in enough detail to work it out. Meanwhile the absolutely irrelevant straw man objections just keep getting trotted out, and some from Percy for one are so offensive it's enough to make a person sick. And if you think you'd be up to what I have to deal with here think again.
Its been you who pulled arguments out of your arse claimed that they where true even though you have been shown you where wrong. but its pointless debating with you if you ignore the evidence that does not support your "theory". In fact i believe if i had a time machine and showed you the whole history of the earth you would just say the time machine is lying i dont accept any evidence it shows.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1780 by Faith, posted 02-01-2014 5:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1790 by Faith, posted 02-01-2014 6:23 PM frako has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1787 of 1896 (717798)
02-01-2014 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1776 by Faith
01-31-2014 11:45 AM


Re: faults and erosion
Faith can you write a thesis on how you think the flood happened all of it. From noah building the ark to him getting the animals on board how he did hit... To where the watter came from was it the ice canopy "theory, moon bukake ... to how the animals got back to their homes and life resumed... in as much detail as possible.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1776 by Faith, posted 01-31-2014 11:45 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1789 by Faith, posted 02-01-2014 6:14 PM frako has not replied

  
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