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Author Topic:   Hello everyone
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 151 of 380 (712670)
12-05-2013 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Faith
12-05-2013 7:29 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
Well no Faith, once again you simply post falsehoods. You have not answered any of my questions.
Who was Admiral Gaspard de Coligny?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 7:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 7:41 PM jar has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 152 of 380 (712671)
12-05-2013 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by jar
12-05-2013 7:40 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
I've answered all your questions and shown you to be making up lies about the Huguenots and the Waldensians and Gaspard de Coligny. Time to stop the evasion and deal with the facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by jar, posted 12-05-2013 7:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 12-05-2013 7:48 PM Faith has not replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 153 of 380 (712672)
12-05-2013 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
12-05-2013 7:41 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
That does not seem to be the case Faith as usual.
Please point me to your post where you explained who Admiral Gaspard de Coligny was?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 7:41 PM Faith has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 399 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 154 of 380 (712673)
12-05-2013 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
12-05-2013 7:33 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
There is some reason ...
Such as?
... to believe that parts of the Lies of the Jews are a forgery. I'd like to see a photo of the original.
OK. Here's a picture of the frontispiece.
It's not a manuscript, Faith, it's a printed book. Printed in Wittenberg during Luther's lifetime. Note the date --- 1543. If he didn't write it, he could always have said so.
And if it is genuine all I can say is that Luther hadn't completely freed himself of the thinking of his Catholic past.
Yeah, that's the trouble with Luther, too darn Catholic.
The exception always proves the rule don't you know.
No. No I don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 7:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 8:04 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(2)
Message 155 of 380 (712677)
12-05-2013 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Dr Adequate
12-05-2013 7:49 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
Yes I've seen the cover, what's needed is to know if there were different editions that had different statements in them.
Sorry you don't know about exceptions to rules proving the rules, it's a very common and valid principle.
Again, four hundred years passed during which no Protestant violence against Jews occurred, on the basis of anything Luther wrote or otherwise. How would YOU explain that? Again, Hitler who found Luther's words very useful for his purposes, was a Catholic and is on record saying he patterned much of his regime after the Catholic organization, and the Pope of the time considered Hitler to be a true son of the Church, and helped to provide secret escape for thousands of Nazis after the war. So whatever Luther wrote it was not made use of by Protestants but by the Catholic mentality of Hitler and the Pope. Which raises the question how much of it Luther actually wrote.
And by the way, forgery is KNOWN to be a common method of manipulation by the Vatican. And I think among all those who have reported on this fact there's at least one Catholic writer, but I'll have to look that up.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-05-2013 7:49 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-05-2013 8:55 PM Faith has replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


(1)
Message 156 of 380 (712678)
12-05-2013 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
12-05-2013 7:33 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
Faith writes:
The rule is that in general --IN GENERAL-- the Protestants were innocent of violence against anyone while they were often the victims of the violence of the RCC.
Now shouldn't that read "The rule is that in general --IN GENERAL-- the TRUE Protestants were innocent of violence against anyone while they were often the victims of the violence of the RCC." ???

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 7:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 399 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 157 of 380 (712679)
12-05-2013 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
12-05-2013 8:04 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
Yes I've seen the cover, what's needed is to know if there were different editions that had different statements in them.
I can find no evidence for this. If The Lies Of The Jews was originally a book about what splendid chaps the Jews were, and all the anti-semitism was added to The Lies Of The Jews after Luther's death, you'd think someone would have noticed it by now. Also that he'd have gone with a different title.
Sorry you don't know about exceptions to rules proving the rules, it's a very common and valid principle.
No it isn't. It's a thing dumb people say.
Again, four hundred years passed during which no Protestant violence against Jews occurred, on the basis of anything Luther wrote or otherwise. How would YOU explain that?
That's something of a non sequitur, isn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 8:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 11:53 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(2)
Message 158 of 380 (712684)
12-05-2013 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by xongsmith
12-05-2013 8:29 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
Yes, I suppose I meant TRUE Protestants, thanks. Not cultural Protestants but people who actually believed and lived by the Bible. If they weren't truly Protestants they wouldn't have been persecuted, they'd have been willing to recant to save themselves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by xongsmith, posted 12-05-2013 8:29 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 159 of 380 (712685)
12-05-2013 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Dr Adequate
12-05-2013 8:55 PM


Re: 95 theses, Waldensians and Huguenots
No, I wouldn't expect it to have had a completely different attitude to the Jews, but that it might not have had some of the more ferocious directives for how to deal with them. You're probably right about possible other editions, but that IS the sort of information that often gets suppressed and can be found only through circuitous channels. All the copies of the original might have been destroyed or a few could have survived where they would be hard to find. And of course it would be disputed and so on. That sort of thing.
I see no non sequitur. There were no Protestant pogroms, that was a Catholic thing.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-05-2013 8:55 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2013 12:28 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(3)
Message 160 of 380 (712692)
12-06-2013 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by scienceishonesty
12-05-2013 12:05 PM


I think I need to answer you better here:
Faith, you can't pick and choose though when it comes to evidence -- I mean you can but it's not the honest approach.
I don't "pick and choose," I know valid testable evidence from "evidence" that is nothing but speculation and interpretation.
Archeological evidence may point to an existence of a variety of different Biblical characters but it also points to a completely different reality in many other aspects about the origins of the Bible and the climate of the area.
I'll say it again. Archaeology is one of the sciences that deals with the past where the interpretations and speculations cannot be verified. Interestingly enough they ignore the evidence we DO have because it contradicts their speculations. That is, we have the Bible WITNESSES to the time periods they study, but they prefer their own fallible interpretations. They make suppositions about time periods they can't prove, they interpret artifacts to suit their theories, they ignore the actual witnesses who lived through that time. Some "science."
You can't see this if you aren't willing to take that first step and ask yourself that difficult question that I put forth to you: Do you really know 100% with every intellectual fiber of your being that your God and your faith are "the truth".
ABSOLUTELY. And over the years my certainty has done nothing but grow.
'
It has to be on par with looking at a tree and touching and feeling it and knowing that it's there. Even if I wanted to deny the existence of trees or buildings or anything else, the evidence is belying my denial.
It's at least as certain as knowledge of that sort gained through the senses. At least.
Science, which you ridicule as guesswork,
I do NOT ridicule SCIENCE as guesswork. I call the UNVERIFIABLE sciences guesswork, which they are. Replicable science, testable science, the hard sciences, laboratory science, whatever you want to call it, is respectable true science because it can be tested and replicated. YOU CANNOT TEST THE UNWITNESSED PAST. But again, even where we have witnesses these "sciences" ignore them and discredit them. It's you who don't understand what science is and you've got yourself all tied in knots over an illusion that calls itself science but isn't.
is why we have all of the advancement in life that we do -- only science gets this credit, not a far east religion, not christianity, not hinduism.
TRUE SCIENCE has produced the advancements you are talking about. Evolution, archaeology, Old Earth Geology have produced ZIP as far as advancement goes. Just a morass of navel-gazing speculations that cannot possibly contribute one thing to human advancement, and are in fact leading the whole human race down a primrose path of absolute nonsense.
Science has been a process yielding TRUTH which has translated into so many things you benefit from every day. If it weren't for science you would still believe that weather is caused by your version of God and not natural processes, you might even still think that illness is because of a lack of devotion to God. Ever degree of superstition held by humans is wiped out a little more each time science finds the real answer to how something is or why it works the way that it does.
Again, you can't tell the difference between the genuine science that does promote useful knowledge and the smoke and mirrors fantasy of the speculative sciences of the ancient past, the purely mental constructs of evolutionism. PURELY MENTAL, UNVERIFIABLE, UNTESTABLE, JUST A WEB OF MENTAL SPECULATION BUILDING ON MENTAL SPECULATION. PURE IMAGINATION, NO REALITY. THAT IS ALL EVOLUTIONISM IS. Archaeology COULD make use of the Bible witness to keep it honest, but no, they prefer their useless speculations. No science there either.
The sad sad thing is this abomination of a pretense for science, along with all the modern "scientific" scholarship that is tearing down the Bible's veracity, is taking millions of people to Hell. This is sad beyond description. I know it's all smoke and mirrors, I've spent time thinking through how it's all smoke and mirrors, but it's a very effective illusion and I'm sorry you've bought into it. The best position a person can take is Kurt Wise's: you may think the evidence supports evolution but you KNOW the Bible is God's word so you resolve the apparent contradictions in favor of God's word. I earnestly wish you might acquire that much faith.
And stop believing the idiot scholars like Bruce Metzger who refused to believe that the Pentateuch was written by Moses. The Bible has been under attack for years, with a view to undermining people's faith in it and the attacks have succeeded although they are all based on fallible human speculation too and in some cases probably even forgeries and some pretty nasty underhanded schemes. I don't know if you'd get anything out of it but I just listened to a discussion about some of these issues that might at least make you curious to know more: An hour discussion about some aspects of how the Bible has been undermined by the "scholars," Answering James White
You think you are following evidence. You are not. You are being deceived. The Bible asks for FAITH. Just believe it. That's what's required of you and when you do give it faith it will lead you into a depth of knowledge you can't even imagine. And it certainly does NOT contradict GENUINE science.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-05-2013 12:05 PM scienceishonesty has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Tangle, posted 12-06-2013 5:44 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 162 by Pressie, posted 12-06-2013 6:02 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 164 by Pressie, posted 12-06-2013 7:49 AM Faith has replied
 Message 193 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-06-2013 5:25 PM Faith has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(5)
Message 161 of 380 (712695)
12-06-2013 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Faith
12-06-2013 4:33 AM


Faith writes:
TRUE SCIENCE has produced the advancements you are talking about. Evolution, archaeology, Old Earth Geology have produced ZIP as far as advancement goes. Just a morass of navel-gazing speculations that cannot possibly contribute one thing to human advancement, and are in fact leading the whole human race down a primrose path of absolute nonsense.
Season of goodwill to all men (and women) aside; you're a blithering idiot.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 4:33 AM Faith has not replied

Pressie
Member (Idle past 90 days)
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(7)
Message 162 of 380 (712696)
12-06-2013 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Faith
12-06-2013 4:33 AM


This one was quote humerous:
.....and the smoke and mirrors fantasy of the speculative sciences of the ancient past
The mining companies I work for are pretty happy about the 'speculative sciences of the ancient past' built by geologists. Those models seem to be very accurate. And mining companies tend to make lots of money using those models. Those models work.
I've never seen a mining company praying for their models. I've always seen them paying geologists to do the work, though.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 4:33 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9539
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 163 of 380 (712697)
12-06-2013 6:29 AM



Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

Pressie
Member (Idle past 90 days)
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 164 of 380 (712700)
12-06-2013 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Faith
12-06-2013 4:33 AM


This one is funny:
I'll say it again. Archaeology is one of the sciences that deals with the past where the interpretations and speculations cannot be verified.
Excuse me. It sure can.
The objective, empirical, verifiable evidence. You've got nothing, Faith. Just an old book. One amongst thousands of them.
Archaeology has got objective, empirical, verifiable evidence.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 4:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1618 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 165 of 380 (712715)
12-06-2013 10:10 AM


upper jurassic

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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