|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Junior Member (Idle past 3466 days) Posts: 28 From: Australia Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Was Jesus' crucifixion all part of God's plan? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Diomedes writes: I always figured "The Force" to be somewhat Yin/Yang Dualism.
What is interesting, from a Star Wars canon standpoint, is that interpretations of the light side and dark side differ. Some consider both to be two separate energy sources, with distinct properties. Others consider there to be one ubiquitous 'Force' and how one manifests their power ultimately denotes whether they are 'touched' by the light or dark side.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
frako Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined:
|
what is she on the good side now? LOL well not really and not really evil, more like revan. I think she knew from him that the new sith empire is coming to wage war on the republic, so she trains you the only one capable of defeating darth nilius who feeds on the force of others and he is real hungry devouring planets at a time, the force technically does not flow trough you but between you and your companions you are a wound in the force. So she lures him to a half dead planet technically sacrificing it to him but also brings you so you can kill him. Then you go to malechore 5 the place where these sith where "borne" as where you to kill the other guy and her. Its hard to explain basically it all has to do with malechor 5 where millions died in a moment do to some gravity thingy, you survive by cutting yourself off form the force so you dont feal their pain, the totally fucked up guy survives by becomming something like unkillable able to heal himself even mortal wounds, and the force eating guy gets force eating powers. But this also goes back to revan that went to defend the republic from the mandelorian threat even though the jedi council said to wait. He won then turned on the republic we later find out why he knew the sith empire was comming so he was taking over the republic to make it strong. But his aprentice turned on him and some jedi where able to capture him/her and whipe his mind then its up to more or les you the player to decide if you go dark or light while fighting to stop malak. Those are Knights of the old republic and knights of the old republic 2 the sith lords pc games old ones. The new one is a mmorpg SWTOR, Star wars the old republic set 300 years later when the sith empire arrives. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
I always figured "The Force" to be somewhat Yin/Yang Dualism. That is actually correct, at least from the standpoint of where Lucas said he got his inspiration for The Force. Most of it came from some of his research into Buddhism and Taoism.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course not. The issue is what causes us to be good. You say it's dogmatic obedience. Paul and I say it's conscience. Conscience is what we gained with the so-called "Fall".
Has humanity lost the ability to be good? Phat writes:
A shepherd doesn't lead every sheep. The sheep follow each other in the direction the shepherd is going. If what you believe is true, perhaps you additionally believe that Jesus need not shepherd you through life...you can find your own way, thank you very much. And don't forget that there were sheep before there were shepherds. The sheep can get along without the shepherd. He only leads them for his own purposes.
Phat writes:
That's what Jesus said.
In other words, we save ourselves(or redeem ourselves) entirely through our own actions?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
w
ringo writes: Just because we are aware of what good and bad mean and that we are conscious of it does not mean that we sheep know what we are doing...because if you observe this world and read the news you will see sheep behaving very badly. Oh sure there are good sheep...but I'd say that the Shepherds purpose is better than anything that we can come up with on our own. Its the church that has driven people away from Jesus.. sheep who would be shepherds. The issue is what causes us to be good. You say it's dogmatic obedience. Paul and I say it's conscience. Conscience is what we gained with the so-called "Fall". Edited by Phat, : spelling bee
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The shepherd's purpose is to shear you and eat your children.
...but I'd say that the Shepherds purpose is better than anything that we can come up with on our own. Phat writes:
Those are goats.
... if you observe this world and read the news you will see sheep behaving very badly.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
It cheapens the message that you prefer. I swear you must have had a Jewish Mother.
You have this idea that you are responsible for everything. The whole idea of Jesus is that He took on the responsibility...much as you would if you were at a fish fry and they ran out of fish. Humans do not have the ability to fix everything ourselves. And if you admit that Jesus helping us turns it into a whats-in-it-for-me game, you are essentially admitting and exposing human nature for the imperfect fraud that it is. Which is, of course my point.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It cheapens the message and Jesus not only had a Jewish mother, he was a Jew.
You have this idea that you are responsible for everything. The whole idea of Jesus is that He took on the responsibility...much as you would if you were at a fish fry and they ran out of fish. Humans do not have the ability to fix everything ourselves. No, I am responsible for what I do. The idea that Jesus took on the responsibility is simply a modern cop out, a cheap caricature of Jesus message. Human do not have the ability to fix everything but we do have the responsibility, capability and charge to try to fix everything; and only we will ever fix anything.
And if you admit that Jesus helping us turns it into a whats-in-it-for-me game, you are essentially admitting and exposing human nature for the imperfect fraud that it is. Which is, of course my point. No, again you misrepresent what I say. I say that folk that believe Jesus will fix anything at all are simply trying to justify their own failure to even try to fix anything and that it is a really sad and pitiful position that can only lead to things not getting fixed.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Jesus became human to demonstrate that it is possible for humans to do it themselves. Even if we do it imperfectly, so did He.
The whole idea of Jesus is that He took on the responsibility...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I say that folk that believe Jesus will fix anything at all are simply trying to justify their own failure to even try to fix anything and that it is a really sad and pitiful position that can only lead to things not getting fixed. Not necessarily. I try and do my best and fail often. I ask for forgiveness and the strength and wisdom to move on. I am not so vain as to believe that "only humans will ever do anything". (Naive too) Seems you never believed in the Spirit because you were too busy asking "what the hell that mean't"...too trapped in your own logic and reason to consider the Spirit to be part of reality. Nicene Creed: "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. " It is never cheap to ask for help nor to accept it. You have too much of that Eastern Prep School machismo do-it-yourself attitude.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Jesus became human to demonstrate that it is possible for humans to do it themselves. It may have been true that He preached this message to His own Jewish Disciples. They had no empowerment nor grace...for He had not yet died and risen. He even predicted that Peter would fail.
Even if we do it imperfectly, so did He. Where did He do it imperfectly? The only reason you guys believe He did it imperfectly is because you do not recognize Him as God. You see only a human. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Not necessarily. I try and do my best and fail often. I ask for forgiveness and the strength and wisdom to move on. I am not so vain as to believe that "only humans will ever do anything". (Naive too) Can you give an example of the Holy Spirit ever doing anything except maybe knocking up a little girl?
Seems you never believed in the Spirit because you were too busy asking "what the hell that mean't"...too trapped in your own logic and reason to consider the Spirit to be part of reality. Apples are part of reality and so when someone asks me "What the hell does apple mean?" I can show them an apple.
It is never cheap to ask for help nor to accept it. You have too much of that Eastern Prep School machismo do-it-yourself attitude. I never said we should not ask for or accept help. But can you point to an example of supernatural entities actually helping fix anything?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
The only reason you guys believe He did it imperfectly is because you do not recognize Him as God. You see only a human. That would be a pretty poor and incompetent excuse for a god.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It may have been true that He preached this message to His own Jewish Disciples. They had no empowerment nor grace...for He had not yet died and risen.quote: We have been empowered right from the start.
Phat writes:
I believe He did it imperfectly because the Bible says so.
The only reason you guys believe He did it imperfectly is because you do not recognize Him as God.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Its also a threat to warn someone that if they don't do well they will fail. I prefer the current dispensation of grace. Yes, we should try and do our best. But we will fail. And God does not count failure against us any more.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024