Was Jesus' crucifixion all part of God's plan?

If that were true then all of Christianity is just a farce, a fool's play.

You really haven't read the Bible have you Phat?The Bible is filled with stories of God communicating with humans thousands of years before Jesus so to say stuff like the above is just plain silly.I do not doubt that if there is salvation it is a free gift but thinking Jesus had to die to pay for that free gift just makes God really really really stupid.

No he wasn't No he didn't. No we wouldn't.Do you see the problem yet?

Why?And why must we pay our own debt? What if a guy were in debt so much that he could never pay it back? Would you have him suffer and sacrifice his entire life just for the sake of some vague concept of honor? Thats a farce to me, jar. God would never make a man work so hard for their entire lives...knowing they likely would never finish paying. Thats the real farce.It is not cheap to offer to pay a mans debt. It is honorable, if you have the resources, to do so.And to not be too proud to accept the gift.

All I see is me stating my beliefs and you saying nuh uh didnt happen.Was there something I missed?

I think the thing you've missed, is that what I've said is equally as valid as what you've said - but there's no validity in either position.You're just making shit up and all that anybody reading it has to do is shrug and say 'so what?' It works in church but nowhere else.

If Jesus simply gave his life and it was not taken then it is just a joke. The joke, the farce is the idea that Jesus death paid anyone's bill, anyone's debt.God has the power to forgive. But the idea of a prepaid bill is comforting and as I have said many times a fantastic con job. The conmen sell the idea that if you join their chapter of Club Christian then you have someone else to pay your debts and you don't have to work so hard for the rest of you life.What? Me Worry?But didn't we create our own debt? Did someone else create our debt?

Scripture says He did and I know He paid mine. Obviously you're missing out but that's your own choice.

And I suppose you think that if you work hard enough...help enough old ladies across the street...volunteer at enough food banks, talk to enough children at their eye level....even if you gently instruct enough of us wayward CCoI
with challenging thinking...you wont need anything from GOD nor will you expect anything.I suppose it is honorable to earn your way through life. It really isnt fair to give anyone anything.

No, not quite. I may well need to be forgiven but I do not expect Jesus to be a payment for that.I cannot of course expect anything.

OK, fair enough. Here is another question. As people...as humans...should we expect anything from each other? What is the least we should expect?

Well figures that your a woman. You find that there is nothing wrong if someone keeps paying your tab.

As you may know, I work at Safeway, a grocery chain recently bought out by Albertsons LLC (Cerebrus Capital Management).At work, we all punch in and out on a timeclock. There are rules. For instance, if you are over 5 minutes late you incur 1/4 of a point penalty.If you dont call and don't show up you lose 2 points. We all have 8 points per rolling year and if the system were rigidly enforced, some would lose their jobs over absence and tardiness. Often, however, management wipes the slate clean and lets everyone start over. What I have observed is that the responsible ones keep being responsible while the slackers continue to incur points against their record. The responsible ones never expect timeclock amnesty...yet they benefit from it as do the slackers. Nobody refuses to accept it.So tell me why if Jesus paid the bill...the debt...for everyone that it would be a farce. Does not GOD have the right to give humanity amnesty from failure? Does this action cheapen GOD or does it cheapen the entire concept of fairness and justice?Even if you never expected GOD to cancel your debt, would you accept the offer? Would it in any way make you less responsible?

If I lived in slovenija and we went out on the town, would you object if i paid the tab? Would it matter if I earned as much as you or if I were a billionaire? Would you insist on paying your tab or would you let me treat you?

No as long as i get to pay the tab the next round, its how we usually drink everyone buys a round. Now if someone does not buy around like ever he gets punished in the worst way possible, people talking about them behind their back , The only people exempt from this arrangement are women.