Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9159 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: K.Rose
Post Volume: Total: 915,010 Year: 2,267/9,624 Month: 112/1,588 Week: 41/267 Day: 1/40 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   I don't believe in God, I believe in Gravity
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 676 of 693 (712126)
11-27-2013 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 644 by Phat
11-24-2013 11:25 AM


Re: Predictions
I have no idea what accountability has to do with anything here. It's simply a question of whether or not supernatural agents (if such things exist) can in principle be objectively evidenced or not.
The question remains - Why is it not conceivably possible for this to occur?
If GOD (the supernatural creator of all that is seen and unseen) chose to come to us in material form and undertake miracles that can be witnessed by anyone, video recorded etc. etc. - Then why couldn't this conceivably happen?
What "by definition" attribute of supernatural GOD makes this scenario impossible?
I would have thought Christians would be quite receptive to that idea....? Instead they seem to recoil in horror at the idea that objective evidence ever could occur and prefer to stick to visions and voices type "evidence". Why is that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 644 by Phat, posted 11-24-2013 11:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 680 by Jon, posted 12-01-2013 8:55 PM Straggler has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 369 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 677 of 693 (712131)
11-27-2013 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 673 by Straggler
11-27-2013 1:05 PM


Re: Predictions
Well there is your problem.
The only whay to test a hypothesis is by test natural things. As long as you are just making shit up it is mental masturbation, not science.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by Straggler, posted 11-27-2013 1:05 PM Straggler has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 387 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 678 of 693 (712178)
11-28-2013 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 675 by Straggler
11-27-2013 1:31 PM


Re: What happened to methodological naturalism?
Straggler writes:
Your use of the term "know" imposes unachievable restrictions of certainty that are entirely pointless.
Not at all. I'm using it exactly as you are when you say, "All knowledge, most definitley scientific knowlegde, is both tenative and fallible."
Straggler writes:
We can know rather than believe when the next eclipse will occur in the same way that we can know rather than believe that evolution occurred. Past or future has little bearing here.
You conveniently ignore the example I gave you in Message 633 (the very message you're responding to):
quote:
You believe that your wife or girlfriend will come home today. You can "predict" that she will, based on past behaviour but you know that people do fail to come home; there is a finite probability that she will not.
You can know to some level of confidence what you can observe. You can not observe everything such that you can make reliable predictions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by Straggler, posted 11-27-2013 1:31 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 324 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


(1)
Message 679 of 693 (712198)
11-28-2013 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by Straggler
11-27-2013 1:31 PM


Re: What happened to methodological naturalism?
All knowledge, most definitley scientific knowlegde, is both tenative and fallible.
Are you sure?
This reminds me of a quote from Richard Feynman who said something like
'We can never know that we are right. We can only be sure when we are wrong.'
It made me laugh because I thought that surely we could know that we are right about what we know to be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by Straggler, posted 11-27-2013 1:31 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 680 of 693 (712279)
12-01-2013 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 676 by Straggler
11-27-2013 1:44 PM


Re: Predictions
If GOD (the supernatural creator of all that is seen and unseen) chose to come to us in material form and undertake miracles that can be witnessed by anyone, video recorded etc. etc. - Then why couldn't this conceivably happen?
Suppose it could. What would be so supernatural about a fully material being interacting with the material world around it?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by Straggler, posted 11-27-2013 1:44 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18166
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 681 of 693 (712282)
12-02-2013 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 655 by Tangle
11-24-2013 6:41 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
Tangle,replying to jar writes:
That, dear Jar, is what the supernatural IS, or is supposed to be - the impossible happening.
If you want to define it away, so that it can't happen linguistically, you're just messing around with words not meanings and I have no time for that crap.
Humans cannot define the impossible. We cannot declare anything to be impossible, since at best we have but theories.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 655 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2013 6:41 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 682 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 5:11 AM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9478
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 682 of 693 (712285)
12-02-2013 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 681 by Phat
12-02-2013 3:09 AM


Re: The Alien Done It
Phat writes:
Humans cannot define the impossible. We cannot declare anything to be impossible, since at best we have but theories.
Then I'm sure you'll agree with me that the 'miracles' in the bible, including Christ's resurection, were not miracles at all.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 3:09 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 7:19 AM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18166
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 683 of 693 (712287)
12-02-2013 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 682 by Tangle
12-02-2013 5:11 AM


Re: The Alien Done It
tangle writes:
Then I'm sure you'll agree with me that the 'miracles' in the bible, including Christ's resurrection, were not miracles at all.
We cannot say either way. There were eyewitnesses, but the stories may have changed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 682 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 5:11 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 684 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 1:04 PM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9478
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 684 of 693 (712308)
12-02-2013 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 683 by Phat
12-02-2013 7:19 AM


Re: The Alien Done It
Phat writes:
We cannot say either way. There were eyewitnesses, but the stories may have changed.
So, as a christian, you don't believe in the resurrection?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 683 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 7:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 685 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 1:12 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18166
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 685 of 693 (712311)
12-02-2013 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 684 by Tangle
12-02-2013 1:04 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
Personally, of course I believe. My opinions on the matter is that truth is truth regardless of who believes or acknowledges it as such. God created humanity long before we even had the wisdom to believe...or doubt...or declare the impossibility of His existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 684 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 1:04 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 686 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 1:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9478
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 686 of 693 (712312)
12-02-2013 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 685 by Phat
12-02-2013 1:12 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
Phat writes:
Personally, of course I believe. My opinions on the matter is that truth is truth regardless of who believes or acknowledges it as such. God created humanity long before we even had the wisdom to believe...or doubt...or declare the impossibility of His existence.
So what's all this about not knowing that something is a miracle or not? You plainly do.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 685 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 1:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 687 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 1:25 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18166
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 687 of 693 (712313)
12-02-2013 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 686 by Tangle
12-02-2013 1:17 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
So what's all this about not knowing that something is a miracle or not? You plainly do.
I believe it. You don't. Technically I cant say I know it(except in my heart) Neither do you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 686 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 1:17 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 688 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 1:34 PM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9478
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 688 of 693 (712314)
12-02-2013 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 687 by Phat
12-02-2013 1:25 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
You'll forgive me for being baffled.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 1:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 689 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 1:42 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18166
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 689 of 693 (712315)
12-02-2013 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 688 by Tangle
12-02-2013 1:34 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
Of course. I probably baffle myself sometimes, and jumped into the conversation on a lark. I suppose that my original point was that we humans cannot clearly define what is and is not impossible. We can only verify what is possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 688 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 1:34 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 690 by Tangle, posted 12-02-2013 2:42 PM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9478
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 690 of 693 (712318)
12-02-2013 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 689 by Phat
12-02-2013 1:42 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
Phat writes:
I suppose that my original point was that we humans cannot clearly define what is and is not impossible. We can only verify what is possible.
And yet you are certain that the impossibility of the resurrection happened and I am certain that it's impossible for a beheaded and cremated man to get up and walk.
Seems pretty simple to me.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 689 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 1:42 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 691 by Phat, posted 12-02-2013 2:54 PM Tangle has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024