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Author Topic:   Isaiah 53 speaks about ISRAEL, and not about the messiah.
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 121 of 174 (807960)
05-07-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Coyote
05-07-2017 10:36 AM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
Always add to the topic and further explain how the topic of Isaiah 53, does not include the worldly country of Israel. This I do and have been doing.
But putting up SPAM pics is spamming and does not add to the content or discussion.
So allow me this opportunity to again prove that the Lord is not a racist and Isaiah 53 does not imply that God favours a worldly nation that calls itself Israel.
Heres set theory or SET LAW it is mathematics and determines LOGIC.
God is love, Love is for all not for some, God is therefore for all and loves all. If one loves all they are not racists and not elitists and do not favor one over anyone else in the ALL SET of all humans.
Jesus died for all and not for some, fulfilling love and again showing God is not a racist.
The Lord loves people not man made groupings called nations.
Set theory or set law or mathematics shows that worldly Israel is not a chosen special different nation favored by God or by Jesus.
Selah

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Coyote, posted 05-07-2017 10:36 AM Coyote has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20020
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 122 of 174 (807971)
05-07-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Davidjay
05-07-2017 10:31 AM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
Davidjay writes:
Ringo you are blatantly against the Bible and the Lord, and yet pick out bible verses to supposedly support racism and elitism and the the supposed superior branch called Zionism
I respect the Bible more than you do. I pointed out what it actually says, whereas you twist it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Davidjay, posted 05-07-2017 10:31 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 123 of 174 (807984)
05-07-2017 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Davidjay
05-07-2017 10:18 AM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
I assume all Christians are true Christians but I also understand that you, like many Christians, are simply a member of the Christian Cult of Ignorance and that you constantly misrepresent, denigrate and profane both the Bible and Christianity.
I do not question your being a Christian but do try to warn folk that you are simply an ignorant dishonest charlatan lying about what others say, what the Bible says and what reality says, what Christianity is and Jesus' message.
You have my pity.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Davidjay, posted 05-07-2017 10:18 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 174 (807998)
05-07-2017 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Davidjay
05-07-2017 10:22 AM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
NoNUKES .......Yes they were chosen to show that the Lord doesnt have favorites..... as they rebelled from the start, and caused Moses no end of problems. Only the believers and honest and faithful ones went on with the Lords annointed..... again showing that individuals not groups are chosen. Have you forgotten your true History of the Exodus...
I am quite disappointed that you failed to address the words of the text which say the exact opposite of what you claim they do. The text says that the Lord does have a chosen people based on a promise made to Abraham long ago. The text also shows that Israel's lack of faithfulness may result in punishment, but not loss of their 'chosen' status.
I known the history of Exodus very well. And now I know you a little bit better than I did. Thanks for that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Davidjay, posted 05-07-2017 10:22 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Davidjay, posted 05-08-2017 12:26 PM NoNukes has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 174 (808000)
05-07-2017 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Davidjay
05-07-2017 8:37 AM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
Cats eye, dont you know, the cat is out of the bag, you have called yourself a Christian, and then post such unChristian comments..
So the Bible's wrong, then?
It's a ramification of your claim. You're the one making claims that makes the Bible wrong.
But Jesus never (couldn't) said that you have to take the Bible as if it is literally unable to be wrong, so that doesn't really have to be a part of Christianity anyways. There are certainly Christians who don't worship the Bible like yours does.
So since you're doing me, I suppose I could do you: You, being the "Christian" charlatan that you are, are a committer of the one unforgivable sin. That is, Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. When you're here telling lies in the name of God, you're really fucking up royally. You should stop it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Davidjay, posted 05-07-2017 8:37 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 126 of 174 (808085)
05-08-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by NoNukes
05-07-2017 10:29 PM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
I am quite disappointed that you failed to address the words of the text which say the exact opposite of what you claim they do. The text says that the Lord does have a chosen people based on a promise made to Abraham long ago. The text also shows that Israel's lack of faithfulness may result in punishment, but not loss of their 'chosen' status.
I known the history of Exodus very well. And now I know you a little bit better than I did. Thanks for that.
The chosen people have always been those that choose the Lord, always as in ALWAYS.
Anyone could join Moses Exodus, and become chosen, despite their background....or bloodlines they just had to believe in the "Messiah to come' (Jesus). It was the law.
Multitudes died in the wilderness because they wanted to go back and were rebellious and disobedient.... they were not chosen, as bloodlines never rule and are not a determining facter.
For one was chosen the other rejected as in Cain and Able...right from the start.
For which of the prophets have NOT your fathers killed, said the Lord. The so called chosen ones killed the Lords true people....
Rahab was chosen even though a prostitute, Ruth was chosen even though ******, Mary Magdalene was chosen even though **** the woman at the well was chosen even though **** it was never by nationality or bloodlines, never EVER.
Its a con, that the worldly Israel uses to get people on its side, no country is sacrosanct, no country is superior or a special branch or an evolutionary mutaion that the Lord chose to be better than anyone else.
Choice is the paramount PRINCIPLE, always and forever. To be chosen, you must CHOOSE the Lord and choose LOVE.
SEE Evolution is a RACIST doctrine.
Moses prophesided over and over again about the disobedience and poor choosing of the multiple of his followers... and they all died in the wilderness until a new generation of youth and young rose up and believed. Its always been about believe and faith and courage, never about bloodlines and heritage....
SEE next article for insights from a different angle.....

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by NoNukes, posted 05-07-2017 10:29 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Davidjay, posted 05-08-2017 12:29 PM Davidjay has not replied
 Message 128 by NoNukes, posted 05-08-2017 1:53 PM Davidjay has replied
 Message 129 by Son Goku, posted 05-10-2017 3:11 PM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 127 of 174 (808086)
05-08-2017 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Davidjay
05-08-2017 12:26 PM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
Moses' Prophecies about Two Israel’s
Because Jacob had to wrestle to become Israel and because Israel has to choose to become Spiritual Israel to
inherit the promises and fulfill all prophecies and because the Children of Israel have to place the Blood of the
Lamb on the doorposts of their hearts in the exact same way as do strangers, let’s look at one of the original
prophecies in the Bible from one of the greatest leaders of the Bible who talked with the great “I am”� and
Jesus as well . ..MOSES.
For in the Torah, before Moses’s death, he prophesied directly against the rebellious older generation that
he had lead or dragged through the wilderness and spent 40 years and not 40 days with. He prophesied saying
unto physical disobedient Israel: (my comments are in parenthesis)
“I will hide my face from them, (and it has been ever since, except to those that accept the true Messiah) what
their end shall be, for they be a very froward generation, children in whom is NO FAITH (only law and tradition
and force like with all worldly people).
They have moved me (the Lord) to jealousy (for He is a jealous God because He created us and wants us to serve
only Him with a true heart of love) with that which is not God (For they showed their hearts by making an idol
to return to Egypt and its so-called comforts even though it meant enslavement once again. And so it is with all
those that are materialistic and want a physical God rather than a Spiritual God based on the principles of love
and respect and truth) They have provoked me (the Lord) to anger (and it is a frightening thing to make the
Lord Our God our personal enemy) with their vanities.
And I (the Lord) will move them to JEALOUSY with those that are not a people (The Lord is saying to Moses
that he will make physical Israel jealous of spiritual Israel when he gathers them...in the Last Gathering.. For
Isaiah, the great prophet said the exact same thing.
Isaiah 65
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found
of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold
me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
Isa 65:2
I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious
people, which walketh in a way that was not good,
after their own thoughts;
Isa 65:3
A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my
face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense
upon altars of brick;
Isa 65:4
Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the
monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of
abominable things is in their vessels;
Isa 65:5
Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I
am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a
fire that burneth all the day.
And even in the new testament peter said the exact same thing.......
1 Peter 2
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed
indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an
holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable
to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I
lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he
that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but
unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the
builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the
corner,
1Pe 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to
them which stumble at the word, being disobedient:
whereunto also they were appointed.
(part 2 coming up)

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Davidjay, posted 05-08-2017 12:26 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 128 of 174 (808131)
05-08-2017 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Davidjay
05-08-2017 12:26 PM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
Anyone could join Moses Exodus, and become chosen, despite their background....or bloodlines they just had to believe in the "Messiah to come' (Jesus). It was the law.
That is not what the text says, which is that the people of Israel were God's chosen people based on a pact formed with Abraham well before any of them every existed.
it was never by nationality or bloodlines, never EVER.
And yet the Bible says differently. In the old testament the exceptions are few and far between. Rahab was made an honorary Jew for betraying here own country to the Jewish people. Her country apparently was in the way of promises made to Israel. More to the point, arguing that she got her way despite her own immorality prior to Jesus forgiving all of our sins tells us what lesson?
Its a con, that the worldly Israel uses to get people on its side, no country is sacrosanct
What of the Bible text that tells us something completely different. Why do you discuss everything but that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Davidjay, posted 05-08-2017 12:26 PM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 9:39 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Son Goku
Member (Idle past 31 days)
Posts: 1208
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005


(1)
Message 129 of 174 (808414)
05-10-2017 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Davidjay
05-08-2017 12:26 PM


Re: Israel is never mentioned in Isaiah 53
Its a con, that the worldly Israel uses to get people on its side, no country is sacrosanct, no country is superior or a special branch or an evolutionary mutaion that the Lord chose to be better than anyone else.
Except in the Tanakh, Yahweh enters into a covenant (Mosaic) with the Israelites stricter than the one he holds with humanity in general (Noahic). A covenant that ensures their special place among the peoples of the world.
Deuteronomy writes:
For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Davidjay, posted 05-08-2017 12:26 PM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 8:37 AM Son Goku has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 130 of 174 (808677)
05-12-2017 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Son Goku
05-10-2017 3:11 PM


Re: Israel is not special
The Lord is not a racist, and has no favorites and special people except those people that chose HIM. If they choose the chosen one Jesus they are special even though the same as all other people..its the choice in choosing the Messiah or those of the past that choose the "Messiah to come' that makes one special and chosen..nothing else, nothing as in NOTHING ELSE.
Racism is wrong and causes wars, when people think they are superior because of where they were born or who they born from, it causes division and hatrd and racist behaviour, including war.
SEE Evolution is a racist doctrine. The Lord never promoted racism, never....
The Lord promised to hide His Face from them,,, because of their disobediences....
They were chosen to be a dandy bad example, so that it shows that groups and groupies do NOT make it into the gates of heaven.. Only individuals.... individually choosing.
If a jewish person chooses the Messiah, same process as anyone else. fair equal and JUST, all the same.
Principle is Equality and CHOICE

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Son Goku, posted 05-10-2017 3:11 PM Son Goku has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Son Goku, posted 05-12-2017 2:32 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 131 of 174 (808698)
05-12-2017 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by NoNukes
05-08-2017 1:53 PM


Re:Rahab was saved and pure and chosen
Darn NoNukes, I cant find the article of mine called Badmouthing Rahab, our sister in the Lord.
For there is no such thing as an honourary Jew, you are either in or out... either the Lord accepts you or He doesn;t accept you into the congregation..... no in betweens and half hearts, ALL or nothing, she was either saved or forsaken and lost.
She was saved and chosen and special.
Forget her so called sins as she was a whore so were a lot of the Lords women....Mary Magdalene etc.... woman at the well etc...
Ruth etc.....
Theirs hearts were pure because the choose the pure one... the Messiah to come or if they were after Jesus birth, the Messiah that had come. No difference.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by NoNukes, posted 05-08-2017 1:53 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 9:45 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 132 of 174 (808701)
05-12-2017 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Davidjay
05-12-2017 9:39 AM


Re: NoNukes are you saying God is a racist ?
Dont get offended NoNukes, but you seem to be saying over and over again, that the Bible says God has a chosen people according to bloodlines...... and that they are special.
Do you not know that such a statement means they are superior rather than equal to all other people. Dont you relaise that such a doctrine would promote hatred between them and others.
So do be clear and state clearly whether or not you believe in your Bible interpretation that the Lord favors the worldly nation of Israel, and that they are special and chosen.
And then explain if you think so why this is not racism and devisive.
Allow me to differ by saying, ..... the Bible and Jesus and scriptures and all the prophets say no nation or bloodlines is pure and righteous..... all are unrighteous and all are EQUAL

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 9:39 AM Davidjay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-12-2017 10:04 AM Davidjay has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 174 (808707)
05-12-2017 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Davidjay
05-12-2017 9:45 AM


Re: NoNukes are you saying God is a racist ?
Dont get offended NoNukes, but you seem to be saying over and over again, that the Bible says God has a chosen people according to bloodlines...... and that they are special.
Do you not know that such a statement means they are superior rather than equal to all other people. Dont you relaise that such a doctrine would promote hatred between them and others.
So do be clear and state clearly whether or not you believe in your Bible interpretation that the Lord favors the worldly nation of Israel, and that they are special and chosen.
And then explain if you think so why this is not racism and devisive.
Allow me to differ by saying, ..... the Bible and Jesus and scriptures and all the prophets say no nation or bloodlines is pure and righteous..... all are unrighteous and all are EQUAL
So then, according to you, the Bible contradicts itself.
It says that Israelites are God's chosen people, and you also interpret it to say that everyone is equal and no group is chosen.
So which part of the Bible is wrong? The part about Israel being chosen, or your interpretation that none are chosen?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 9:45 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 7:19 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Son Goku
Member (Idle past 31 days)
Posts: 1208
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005


Message 134 of 174 (808751)
05-12-2017 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Davidjay
05-12-2017 8:37 AM


Re: Israel is not special
Except the Tanakh says over and over and over again that the Israelites are Yahweh's chosen people. I mean I gave you a passage where Moses directly states that Yahweh thinks they are his treasure. What more do you need.
Edited by Son Goku, : Moses not Yahweh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Davidjay, posted 05-12-2017 8:37 AM Davidjay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Diomedes, posted 05-12-2017 2:57 PM Son Goku has not replied
 Message 140 by NoNukes, posted 05-13-2017 2:57 PM Son Goku has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 976
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 135 of 174 (808755)
05-12-2017 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Son Goku
05-12-2017 2:32 PM


Re: Israel is not special
I mean I gave you a passage where Moses directly states that Yahweh thinks they are his treasure. What more do you need.
What Davidjay needs:
- A spell checker
- A remedial math course
- A functioning cerebral cortex
- An intervention

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Son Goku, posted 05-12-2017 2:32 PM Son Goku has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by NoNukes, posted 05-13-2017 2:33 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
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