Creationist = Anti-Environmentalist?

I haven't noticed a relationship between religious affiliation and environmental concerns. For instance most people in the PRC are atheists and they don't give a crap about the environment. I've personally been north to south across China and saw this myself.I don't think you can equate the belief that global warming is manmade to environmental concern. Some people may have strong environmental concerns but not believe the manmade component of global warming is significant or serious. That doesn't mean they wish to trash the planet.At the link I'm posting there is a graph at the top of delta O 18 which corresponds to temperature covering the last 2.6 million years. Could you explain the cyclic nature of global temperature ( particularly over the last 650,000 years) and how these obviously natural occurrences fit in with your model that present global warming is largely manmade?Oops! - archaeologists, botanists, civil engineers, geographers, geologists, soil scientists, zoologists, - Quaternary Research AssociationHistorically from about 1000 to 1350 AD it was possible to grow wine grapes in Europe 300 miles further north than today (the English had a thriving wine industry rivaling the French) and Vikings were farming in Greenland. By 1425 every Viking in Greenland was dead along with 50% of the population of Iceland. Could you explain how this past warmer than today period and following cold period fits in with your model for present global warming being largely manmade?Also I'd be interested in your stats showing a correlation between environmental concern and belief in largely manmade global warming and the correlation of those two to religious affiliation. Or was this just some anecdotal crap you were blowing by us?Edited by petrophysics, : typo

This is on-topic, since this is a thread about an alleged link between relgious affiliation and environmental concerns.- This is not on topic, since this is a thread on the alleged link between religious affiliation and environmental concerns. A better thread for this question is the Why do biologists believe in the ToE thread. It is, after all, the same question. How can scientists, who spend their careers looking at data, be woodwinked into believing something that is false? The answer, I think, is going to be the same. Just like biologists are indoctrinated into evolution, environmental scientists are indoctrinated into global warming. Just like geologists cannot get a job unless they toe the party line, so must climatologists toe their party line. And just like geologists make up radiometric dates, so the atmospheric scientists just make up their data, too.I think that the linked thread will be a more enjoyable venue for you.

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In many respects, the Bible was the world's first Wikipedia article. -- Doug Brown (quoted by Carlin Romano in The Chronicle Review)

From the OP Your comments?

Buzsaw is a creationist who believes in Global Warming.I think in general its not that anyone denies global warming, as much as they aren't buying the anthropogenic portion of it. Everyone knows that the earth is warming. I think that many creationists simply believe that its a natural cyclical occurrence, rather than buying in to the political spin. Oppose the Endangered Species list? How do you figure since creationists believe animals were created by God, and evolutionists try to control natural selection. Wouldn't it be more likely in the reverse? Ah, yes, because all know how many CEO's for big oil are not only creationists, but also fund creationist programs. Every cause needs support. Yes, because being a fundamentalist Christian is living an easy life devoid of being mocked and ridiculed for virtually every belief. Its clear that they are lemmings, opposed to those on the opposite end of the spectrum. Such as? Woo-hoo!!! Destroy God's creation-- yeah, that makes perfect sense.
a) Creationists believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Salvation from the Tribulation is generally thought to be a good thing. Why wouldn't it? Forget all that other stuff in prophecy where Jesus that we will not know the day or hour of His coming. Creationists actually have a pact with God which says that they are allowed to quicken the process. Yes, because creationists are actually robots that don't breathe air, need a clean water supply, or need to eat contaminated food. So, yeah, of course they want to destroy the environment. It makes perfect sense. Who can refute such unassailable evidence? I think its very evident that what you've stated is true.Okay, I think that's enough with the sarcasm. It must take a special person to believe the nonsense you just purported.

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"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

Sure, the people in China may have different opinions about the environment than we do here.However, the people in China are not, to my knowledge, Fundamentalist Christian Biblical Literalists.What I'm talking about is why there is a correlation between people who believe that the world was created 6000 years ago, and people who believe that getting 3 miles to the gallon is perfectly reasonable.

This is disinginuinous. The same people who today are saying that's it's warming but not caused by man, were 5 years ago saying, the world is NOT warming. You would think, but it's not. The red state fundamentalists are the ones who oppose all things "liberal" - that's wellfare, evolution, and "spotted owl tree huggers". "Ignore evidence, support Creationism" - "Yes, Sir!"
"Gays are bad! By the way, this gay prostitute I'm having sex with? Ignore that." - "Yes, Sir!"
"Drugs are bad! Ignore my addiction to pills!" - "Megadittos Rush"These people CLEARLY put authority over their own ability to analyse and reason. It's NOT a stretch to say that if Rush Limbaugh says "There is no global warming, ignore the thermostat", these people will comply. You really are unaware of the whole "end of days" thing, aren't you? Christian Fundamentalists seriously WANT the rapture. Any sign that the end of the world is coming is greated with great joy, because they KNOW that they are going to ascend into heaven and MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE importantly, everyone else WON'T. Sadly, you weren't being very sarcastic. I don't think you've had enough exposure to Fundamentalism. They are a doomsday cult.

Absolutely. I haven't known any fundies personally in my life, but everything you're saying here chimes with the people I've been talking with on another forum. And with what I hear coming out of the windows of the church next door on a Sunday when I'm hanging my washing up.They really want that end-of-the-world apocalyptic party don't they? One of them has been insisting to me that the US government wants to tattoo a bar code on everyone's hand that secretly reads "666".

I understand this is your assertion, but you've provided no evidence that it's true. Do you have any kind of study, other than your personal opinion, showing the environmental concern or lack there of, of YECs?

Well, there was one such survey in 2004. It was called the Presidential Election.Bush, the president with the worst environmental record ever, was elected with near monolithic support from fundamentalists.Sure, it's "possible" that the fundamentalists were also enviornmentalists who just happen to hate homosexuals more than they like breathing clean air and drinking clean water.But, pop around the forums, listen to Fox News, strike up a conversation with any fundamentalist, you'll find the same things:"Bush is the 2nd coming of Jesus. Creationism is Fact. Global Warming is a Myth. Homos are evil. I'm going to Heaven and you aren't!"

So basically you're telling me you have no evidence for your assertion. Why not just say so.Look! I don't know ANY YECs. I have no idea what they think as a group or individually for that matter. Almost everyone I associate with is a geologist, geophysicist, engineer(EE,CE or PE) or biologist. Although they all have environmental concerns, only some of the biologists express concern about global warming. None are YECs but other than that they run the entire spectrum of religious beliefs.You say YECs have no environmental concerns, so prove it.

You may not know any YECs but you're sounding like one. Yet you doubt what I and others on the thread have reported seeing. You want me to present some survey confirming this, as though I personally, since yesterday, funded and conducted a nationwide survey from my own pocket.And in the end, what will happen? You'll simply deny the findings. Sorry, I think I'll keep the 50 grand and go with the observations we've all been making.Formal? No. But, if you want proof, go watch the Hovid video sited above. Go find a YEC and talk to them. We all have been for YEARS now.

I quite think this is on topic, though Admin is welcome to tell me otherwise.If you've seen me talking elsewhere on the forum, then you've seen hardline skeptics give me a very difficut time when I've given anecdotal information. I perhaps will accept it in some cases, where others of a more scientific bent would not. I think you'll find my skeptic bar is fairly high overall though. There's no harm to myself or anyone else in choosing to believe that poltergeists may be real. However, there is great harm to be done if someone is in denial of global warming. There is plenty to be done by teaching children that science is a myth. Anyone who argues otherwise is obliged to present some very clear-cut empirical evidence to support their case.

Instead of forcing ourselves into a position where we have to pick and choose which parts of science it's "safe" to ignore and which we ignore at our peril, why don't we just recognize that belief in poltergeists and denial of global warming stem from precisely the same mental habits, and that those habits are - potentially dangerously - inconsistent with a rigorous, accurate investigation into the natural world?

The same people saying its anthropogenically caused are the same people who predicted the next ice age. Does the same go for blue states opposing all things conservative? Then the same applies to the opposite end of the spectrum too. Noam Chomsky, one of the biggest critics of the US military and capitalism is in the top 2% of wealth and has worked on numerous programs with the military. Or bands like Rage Against the Machine who profit from the very thing they denounce. The irony is delicious. Yes, we want the rapture. But it doesn't mean there is a single thing that anyone can do to expedite the process. Being that I am a fundamentalist, whose around other fundamentalists, I think I have plenty of exposure. Since you aren't one, coupled with what you have perceived it to be, makes me question how much exposure you've had.

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"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias