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Author Topic:   German Election
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 16 of 75 (707242)
09-25-2013 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dogmafood
09-25-2013 8:18 AM


I get the impression that many wouldn't know who Merkel is. Do you think the level of interest would have been radically different if she wasn't standing again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Dogmafood, posted 09-25-2013 8:18 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Dogmafood, posted 09-25-2013 9:50 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 17 of 75 (707243)
09-25-2013 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Jon
09-25-2013 7:37 AM


It depends.
The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world, the Euro is an international currency second only to the US dollar and Germany largely dictates economic policy.
In terms of elections and the effect they have on world economics arguably only the US is more significant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Jon, posted 09-25-2013 7:37 AM Jon has replied

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 18 of 75 (707253)
09-25-2013 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dogmafood
09-25-2013 8:18 AM


Well it is not as if Merkel is some unknown or radical element. I mean does she have some secret plan to invade Poland again? Other than being aware that she was elected and that she is basically a moderate and rational politician what else is there to be interested in?
What new direction is she planning that will affect us all? I think that the new president of Iran has a far greater chance of impacting all of our lives.
The question is more whether Merkel will still be chancellor, which we don't know yet, since the FDP are out of the Bundestag, and whether a new government would mean a significant change in European policy.
I think the import of this election for Europe is a bit exagerrated, though, since the main opposition party don't really differ from the CDU on European policy. The only way we'd expect to see a change is if some sort of left-coalition is established between the Social Democrats, Greens and Die Linke. This would be a coalition with a very small majority, so the SPD would need to make some significant concessions to the left. For that very reason, though, I doubt such a coalition would happen.

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 19 of 75 (707257)
09-25-2013 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Straggler
09-25-2013 8:33 AM


I get the impression that many wouldn't know who Merkel is.
I think everyone with a passing interest in politics has heard of Angela Merkel. I suspect our colleagues over the pond were being slightly facetious.
The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world, the Euro is an international currency second only to the US dollar and Germany largely dictates economic policy.
The idea that Germany dictates economic policy to Europe is nonsense which it gets tiresome to hear. What does it take to block a German proposal in the European Council? France, Britain, Poland and Malta*. That's it. So if Germany is leading an overwhelming large coalition of EU members with some proposal or other, she can still be blocked by a few dissenters, because that's how the EU's designed.
When Germany gets its way, it's because other countries agree with them. It's because they've got France, Britain, Poland and most of the smaller nations to sign up for their proposal. That's not dictating - that's leading.
But the main thing to notice is that Germany does not always get its way. The banking union wasn't Germany's idea. The German government disagreed with most of its powers. But there was nothing Germany could do about this, since they have no power to dictate terms and have to go along with the majority when it goes against them.
*With the understanding that this is just one arbitrarily constructed combination of nations - there are many that would do.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 75 (707259)
09-25-2013 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Straggler
09-25-2013 7:22 AM


Straggler writes:
In world terms it was an important election with potentially far reaching ramifications.
In most democracies, most elections don't have "far reaching ramifications". They may seem so to those who are too close to see the forest for the trees but most democracies are constituted for a certain amount of continuity - to prevent far reaching ramifications in a single election.
A re-election is likely to be even less jarring.

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 21 of 75 (707262)
09-25-2013 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
09-25-2013 11:50 AM


In most democracies, most elections don't have "far reaching ramifications". They may seem so to those who are too close to see the forest for the trees but most democracies are constituted for a certain amount of continuity - to prevent far reaching ramifications in a single election.
Generally yes, although I would argue that within the broad space of the new Eurozone, specific elections, especially those in the larger, more powerful countries can certainly have some ramifications to other nations. In this case, Germany of course holds tremendous sway when in comes to monetary policy of the Euro. How that will play out moving forward could have either benefits or consequences to other countries or the Eurozone as a whole.

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 Message 20 by ringo, posted 09-25-2013 11:50 AM ringo has replied

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 75 (707264)
09-25-2013 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Diomedes
09-25-2013 12:07 PM


Diomedes writes:
... I would argue that within the broad space of the new Eurozone, specific elections, especially those in the larger, more powerful countries can certainly have some ramifications to other nations.
In that way, the German election is more like a state election in the US. An election in a state like New York (or a city like New York, for that matter) can have significant ramifications for its little neighbours like Vermont. However, it has little impact on the world as a whole.

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 Message 30 by caffeine, posted 09-26-2013 3:47 AM ringo has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 23 of 75 (707266)
09-25-2013 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
09-25-2013 12:14 PM


In that way, the German election is more like a state election in the US. An election in a state like New York (or a city like New York, for that matter) can have significant ramifications for its little neighbours like Vermont.
Agreed.
Certain city elections can also have the same effect. In massive cities like Chicago, people often claim that the Mayor of Chicago has more sway when it comes to state politics than the actual Governor of Illinois.

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 24 of 75 (707276)
09-25-2013 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dogmafood
09-25-2013 8:18 AM


I think you make a good point here. My interest over the past week has been on the shootings going on at the Naval yard, and in the Kenyan mall. Germany elections. meh.
Miley Cyrus draws more internet hits. Now Merkel flashing her stuff or doing a bump and grind? That might do it!!!
Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Dogmafood, posted 09-25-2013 8:18 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Dogmafood, posted 09-25-2013 9:58 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 75 (707277)
09-25-2013 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Straggler
09-25-2013 8:33 AM


In terms of elections and the effect they have on world economics arguably only the US is more significant.
Which might be why the U.S. doesn't care.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 09-25-2013 8:33 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 33 by Straggler, posted 09-26-2013 11:42 AM Jon has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 26 of 75 (707278)
09-25-2013 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Jon
09-25-2013 4:52 PM


Jon writes:
Which might be why the U.S. doesn't care.
The US does care, but for as long as Germany and Europe is aligned with it, its government can be complacent about it.
The more interesting point is that the US public is parochial, but from time to time, they're forced to realise that what happens outside their borders matters to them. Usually too late.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 27 of 75 (707284)
09-25-2013 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Straggler
09-25-2013 8:28 AM


Do you think the level of interest would have been radically different if she wasn't standing again?
No I don't. It is a long way from here and people's interests are closer to home. I guess that I view Germany as a modern stable liberal democracy full of educated people, excellent rail service and good beer. Anyone that they choose to elect is likely just fine with me.
In a democracy the elected officials are supposed to be functionaries that represent the will of the people. It is the mood of the people that we should be interested in. Ideally, our elected officials should have no personal opinions and just do what they are told.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Straggler, posted 09-25-2013 8:28 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Straggler, posted 09-26-2013 11:46 AM Dogmafood has replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 28 of 75 (707285)
09-25-2013 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by 1.61803
09-25-2013 4:51 PM


Twerking Merkel

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 Message 24 by 1.61803, posted 09-25-2013 4:51 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by 1.61803, posted 09-26-2013 9:44 AM Dogmafood has replied
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-26-2013 11:11 AM Dogmafood has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 29 of 75 (707287)
09-26-2013 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
09-21-2013 10:35 AM


How important is this election and how much do EvC members know/care about it?
Actually, so long as the Germans keep holding elections, I'm fairly relaxed about the outcome. It's when they stop that you have to worry.

This message is a reply to:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 30 of 75 (707293)
09-26-2013 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
09-25-2013 12:14 PM


In that way, the German election is more like a state election in the US. An election in a state like New York (or a city like New York, for that matter) can have significant ramifications for its little neighbours like Vermont. However, it has little impact on the world as a whole.
This is hugely overstating the case. It has to be remembered that, as well as being the most powerful state in the EU, Germany is the fourth largest economy in the world by itself, and the European country which exports the most outside Europe. German policy certainly does have a significant impact on the world, with the integrated economies we have today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 09-25-2013 12:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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