What a curious remark. I was merely ceding the fact that 'CSI' now has a special meaning in common parlance, and I shouldn't use it generically any more.
And yet, you are still unable to define it. Like I said, it was a tacit admission.
CS, a little common sense would tell you that it takes intelligence to create a system that runs on its own without intelligence.
That's not true. The solar system runs on its own without intelligence and it didn't take intelligence to create it.
The same goes for the water cycle:
The laws of physics can cause systems to run on their own without any intelligence needed.
Kinda like how the laws of chemistry make DNA do its thing without the need for intelligence.
"complex specified information" is a term in the English language understandable by English speakers.
What makes it information? How is it specified? And at what point does it get to be considered complex?
Okay, we'll start by going to the online dictionary and looking each word up.
COMPLEX:
quote:
adjective 1. composed of many interconnected parts; compound; composite: a complex highway system.
2. characterized by a very complicated or involved arrangement of parts, units, etc.: complex machinery. 3. so complicated or intricate as to be hard to understand or deal with: a complex problem. 4. Grammar . a. (of a word) consisting of two parts, at least one of which is a bound form, as childish, which consists of the word child and the bound form -ish. b. complex sentence. 5. Mathematics . pertaining to or using complex numbers: complex methods; complex vector space.
I would pick definition 2 for this case, what do you think?
But then one would have to say that DNA is not complex, just as for example a string of beads of four different colors is not complex. There may be lots of them, but they lack a "very complicated or involved arrangement of parts".
I would pick definition 2 for this case, what do you think?
I think defining the word "complex" doesn't tell me at what point something gets to be considered complex. I know what the word means, I'm looking for a method to identify one thing as complex and another thing as not.
But given your definition, I would say that the code you think that DNA is, isn't very complex because repeating the same four letters in different ways isn't very complicated.
quote:adjective 1. having a special application, bearing, or reference; specifying, explicit, or definite: to state one's specific purpose. 2. specified, precise, or particular: a specific sum of money. 3. peculiar or proper to somebody or something, as qualities, characteristics, effects, etc.: His specific problems got him into trouble. 4. of a special or particular kind. 5. concerned specifically with the item or subject named (used in combination): The Secretary addressed himself to crop-specific problems.
I'd say the first definition is appropriate, having a special APPLICATION.
quote:
noun 1. knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular fact or circumstance; news: information concerning a crime. 2. knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc.; factual data: His wealth of general information is amazing.
3. the act or fact of informing. 4. an office, station, service, or employee whose function is to provide information to the public: The ticket seller said to ask information for a timetable. 5. Directory Assistance.
I'd say number 2 applies here; it's factual data, and it's communicated to the cell by the nucleotide code.
A bit vague. Does a cockroach have specified complexity? Unlike DNA, it would fix your chosen definition of "complex", but what is its special application?
OK, armed with these definitions let's go back to our man in the street and ask him whether "AGTCGATGCTAGTTTGCA" is an example of complex specified information.
* Is it information? Apparently not --- what "factual data" does it contain? It is not, on the face of it, a statement of the height of Mount Rushmore or the average weight of a rabbit.
* Is it specified? Well, that depends, we now know, on whether it has a "special application". So it might be specified, if, for example, it was my email password.
* Is it complex? No, since it is not "characterized by a very complicated or involved arrangement of parts".
This is progress, of a sort, but possibly not in the direction you want to go.
complex specified information -- purpose of choosing words
Sorry to disappoint you, but invoking CSI does not obligate me to understand Dembski's math (which I don't pretend to do).
I have "The Design Inference" but I can't follow the math, so I do not source it in my discussions.
That is a disappointment, here I thought you were some kind of math maven because you liked it when numbers were used. Instead they seem to be some kind of "shiny object" for you: easily distracted by mathematical manipulations with mindless meanings, and unable to determine when it is just horsepucky.
"complex specified information" is a term in the English language understandable by English speakers. It means exactly what it says. It is not a mathematical term, nor does it "belong" to Dembski by virtue of his using it.
Well then someone new to the debate should understand what it means then ... let's see what we can decode from the words:
So we have something too complex and mysterious for the average person to understand or explain, specified by and unspecified specifier to specifically accomplish the specific task of inserting the unspecified specifier, that acts to inform someone\thing and implying a communicator and a receiver.
In other words ... gigo. Words thrown together with connotations intended to imply something that isn't necessarily there, something with no metric to determine how to measure it. Pseudo-terminology: word jumbles with no real meaning for the purpose of fooling the gullible.
Application to biology ... zilch?
Message 115 I can't help it if your English is 'challenged'.
So you must have obviously come to the same conclusion I just did, because it's just words eh?
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