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Author Topic:   Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5 of 169 (700473)
06-03-2013 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
05-31-2013 1:09 PM


Greatest I am writes:
People who believe in the barbaric human blood sacrifice of the Triune Jesus/God must believe that the greatest force ever to exist decided that humans, lowly creations whom we are told are infinitely inferior to God, are somehow more important than God’s own life and that he would give it up for believers.
Greatest I am writes:
How is placing your own life above Triune Jesus/God’s showing a humble character as you think that he would die for you?
You have two contadictory notions there. Either we are "infinitely inferior to God" or we "place our own lives above" Him. Which is it?
In general, the creation is considered to be more important than the artist. It wouldn't be unusual for an artist to sarifice himself, even his life, for his art. It is possible for the artist to be egotistical enough to think he will be remembered separately from his creation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 05-31-2013 1:09 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 78 of 169 (701982)
06-28-2013 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ICANT
06-28-2013 12:35 PM


Re: Original Sin?
ICANT writes:
If a man has sex with a woman who produces a child that he is the father of and he goes his way never seeing the child or providing for the child, does the child suffer loss because of the actions of the father?
No. The child can't lose what it never had.
ICANT writes:
That is the same way mankind suffers loss due to the transgression of the perfect man formed from the dust of the ground.
Exactly. We suffer no loss at all.
(And by your analogy God is a deadbeat father. There is no "transgression" on the part of the abandoned child.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2013 12:35 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 108 of 169 (702205)
07-02-2013 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
07-02-2013 2:23 AM


Re: Let's go get stoned.
Phat writes:
The text speaks for itself.
Nothing that "speaks for itself" should be trusted. Everything should be confirmed. Only a fool would take any text as self-evident.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 07-02-2013 2:23 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 113 of 169 (702330)
07-04-2013 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by ICANT
07-03-2013 4:44 PM


ICANT writes:
The ransom was paid when Jesus said: "it is finished".
So why didn't he say that right off the bat and dispense with all of the drama?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by ICANT, posted 07-03-2013 4:44 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by ICANT, posted 07-04-2013 12:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 117 of 169 (702336)
07-04-2013 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by ICANT
07-04-2013 12:54 PM


ICANT writes:
All the drama has been added by those who do not know what the text says or just ignores what it says.
By "drama", I meant the crucifixion itself. If Jesus could finish his mission by just saying, "It is finished," why did he have to die at all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by ICANT, posted 07-04-2013 12:54 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by ICANT, posted 07-04-2013 1:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 120 of 169 (702342)
07-04-2013 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by ICANT
07-04-2013 1:52 PM


ICANT writes:
There was a space of 3 hours that God the Father separated Himself from God the Son that satisfied God the Father as a ransom to restore mankind to the same relationship that mankind had with God in the Garden when they walked and talked with God.
That's what I'm getting at: Why did it take all the drama of sending his "son" to earth and having him killed? Why couldn't God just say, "Okay, let's start over," and leave out all the silliness?

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ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 138 of 169 (702388)
07-05-2013 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
07-04-2013 9:38 PM


Re: Agony
Faith writes:
Those who have never heard the gospel will generally do much better in the Judgment than those who have heard and rejected it. No, He's certainly infinitely loving.
So God's love is infinite, yet different for some than for others - like the set of positive numbers, infinite on one end only.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 07-04-2013 9:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Faith, posted 07-05-2013 3:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 147 of 169 (702473)
07-07-2013 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Faith
07-05-2013 3:31 PM


Re: Agony
Faith writes:
Interesting how you all just bend over backwards trying to make something evil out of something so good.
You don't have to bend over backwards at all to see that eternal punishment is evil.
But that isn't the topic. The topic is whether or not it is egotistical to think that God would single you out for better treatment than me, for whatever reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Faith, posted 07-05-2013 3:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 07-07-2013 4:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 149 of 169 (702475)
07-07-2013 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
07-07-2013 4:05 PM


Re: Agony
Faith writes:
He offered me the gospel and I took it. He offers you the same. So far you've rejected it and insulted Him for the offer as well.
If I offered you a billion dollars, you probably wouldn't take it seriously either - and you'd think I was evil if I threatened to torture you for refusing it.
And you'd be pretty egotistic to think if I had a billion dollars I'd offer it to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 07-07-2013 4:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 07-07-2013 9:58 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 159 of 169 (702503)
07-08-2013 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
07-07-2013 9:58 PM


Re: Agony
Faith writes:
Yes, but you aren't God, and I did take God's offer seriously because He's God and I know He can save me.
There is no more evidence that "God" is God than there is that I have a billion dollars.
Faith writes:
It is FROM this inevitable immutable miserable eternal destiny built into the fabric of things that He has made a special provision to save us.
But God is the one who created that "immutable" destiny. He's the one who could mutate it if he chose to. He chooses not to.
Faith writes:
... to take God's offer of salvation is really a pretty humbling thing.
Not at all. The God you preach is a thug with a gun pointed at your head. Obeying him is the easy way out.
Faith writes:
What's egotistical is refusing to believe Him on the basis of your own personal judgment of things, putting yourself above God and above those who believe, scorning His salvation.
It isn't the least bit egotistical to believe that he'll carry out his threats. It's at the very least foolish to believe he won't if you obey him.
Edited by ringo, : Added last sentence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 07-07-2013 9:58 PM Faith has not replied

  
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