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Author Topic:   Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 18 of 169 (701331)
06-17-2013 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Heathen
06-05-2013 7:36 AM


Perspective
Heathen writes:
So, God, the eternal, all powerful, superbeing, sacrificed his earthly avatar (Jesus), who had to quit his transient, earthly existence to return to heaven to continue to live for all eternity.
"Sacrifice"? doesn't sound like it.
"die"? ummm... nope.
It would be sacrificial to have to experience the human pain. You seem to imagine the event from a God perspective, which is impossible for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Heathen, posted 06-05-2013 7:36 AM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 46 of 169 (701771)
06-26-2013 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Heathen
06-25-2013 2:40 AM


Re: The first to see Jesus after He'd risen
Heathen writes:
Either the bible is inerrant truth and the word of god and therefore should not contradict itself, or, it is is the fallible word of fallible men and therefore cannot be taken as truth. pick a side and stick with it.
Ravi has a decent answer. A lot of the infidels who attack scripture have as a motive discrediting it. They are not honestly seeking to understand scripture---they already have their minds made up that God isnt real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Heathen, posted 06-25-2013 2:40 AM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Heathen, posted 06-26-2013 2:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 50 by onifre, posted 06-26-2013 1:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 84 of 169 (702062)
06-30-2013 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by onifre
06-26-2013 1:17 PM


Re: The first to see Jesus after He'd risen
Oni writes:
There is nothing special about the way YOU read the scriptures and the way I do. Just because you fallaciously put the cart before the horse doesn't mean the rest of us are going to.
The reason that you argue this way is because you by nature hate the idea of God.
Let me ask you something...Why did "they" hate Stephen?
Acts 6:5-8:2

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 Message 85 by jar, posted 06-30-2013 8:34 AM Phat has replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 86 of 169 (702071)
06-30-2013 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
06-30-2013 8:34 AM


Re: Let's go get stoned.
Yet Stephen was telling the truth. The Jews couldn't handle the truth. Have you ever actually read the bible, jar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 06-30-2013 8:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 06-30-2013 4:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 88 of 169 (702075)
06-30-2013 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
06-30-2013 4:17 PM


Saint Stephen versus the Ain't Listening Bunch.
Did you mean to say "corrupting?
If so, Israel itself was foreknown to become corrupted. They rejected the Messiah that had come for them.
Truth had nothing to do with reality.
Truth was rejected in favor of the reality that humans chose. The same stubborn nature that was in the men who stoned Stephen is in the minds and hearts of many self proclaimed intellectuals to this day. Reject the truth and embrace reality as you determine it. Sad mistake.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 06-30-2013 4:17 PM jar has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 89 of 169 (702076)
06-30-2013 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Iblis
06-28-2013 10:52 PM


Re: ICANT
Iblis writes:
I want so much more, brother. I want to see Faith's spiritual death and St. Peter's Thousand Year Day and maybe even Lucifer's Flood, getting the walkabout they deserve. None of that seems likely to happen now, it's all you. And that makes me sad.
What is it...really...that you want to see? I think that in all reality you have your mind made up. I could be wrong though---enlighten me.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 104 of 169 (702156)
07-01-2013 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
07-01-2013 8:35 PM


Re: Let's go get stoned.
Do you have any proof behind your allegations, or is the serpent whispering "the truth" in your ear yet again?

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 Message 103 by jar, posted 07-01-2013 8:35 PM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 105 of 169 (702175)
07-02-2013 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
07-01-2013 8:35 PM


Re: Let's go get stoned.
jar writes:
The story of Stephen is told in Acts from the point of view of someone actively trying to document the early Christian perspective, to market the new product Christianity.
The whole story makes no sense to someone who sees Jesus as just a human with a good message. You say you are a Creedal Christian....but do you believe what the Creed says? You defend the story in Genesis and claim that the serpent told the truth, yet you claim that the NT is nothing more than an attempt at selling a new religion. The reason that this new religion makes no sense to you is because you essentially let logic, reason, and reality determine your belief. So which is it?
You say you have read the Bible. You treat it like a story when it suits you, and then claim marketing when you dont understand it. The text speaks for itself.( I trust you have read the Bible)
Does the Nicene Creed suggest that Jesus is alive today? If so, what is the problem with the NT?
Matthew 15:21-28 writes:
Matt 15:21-28
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.
26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."
28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
The text tells us that Jesus was sent to Israel. You may listen to all the logic, reason, and reality that you wish, but denial of the purpose of Jesus Christ requires that you yourself redefine His purpose. You say that He is a great example of how to live. that we need to try to do what is right. That we know right from wrong. I can agree with all of this, yet I don't support your idea that there is no devil and no messiah. The text supports my belief, but you then take the very same text that proved to you this insane notion that the serpent told the truth...a notion that virtually no other Christian has mentioned.(look up the Hebrew and you will see that God never lied. You are, of course, free to belong to your preferred Chapter of Club Christian, but keep in mind that if the book was inspired only by humans, you or I are no better than the authors....and that critics could claim that you yourself are as much a marketer of doctrine as the ones whom you accuse.
It is true that a new religion is being preached after the Gospels. The old group of people preached of a kingdom on earth. The new idea was of a people "in Heaven".
I can see that you have reason to see that this new belief was being "marketed"...but do you have any evidence that the marketing conflicted with the old product? Keep in mind that plan B never becomes important unless plan A is rejected. But of course you have allowed intellectual humanists with no god in their heart apart from human wisdom convince you that Jesus was never a Messiah rejected by Israel. Thus I can see your confusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 07-01-2013 8:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 07-02-2013 8:32 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 107 by Heathen, posted 07-02-2013 9:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
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