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Author Topic:   Wealth Distribution in the USA
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 466 of 531 (701522)
06-20-2013 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by jar
06-20-2013 12:10 PM


Re: who is a drain?
I'm sure there are alternatives to most everything.
And when a thing adds less to the economy than the alternative, can we not call it a drain?
BUT, TSA in particular seems to be just another way for private companies to divert funds from the government to private industry.
I don't know what you mean.
Why don't you use the quote function?

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 Message 465 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 12:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 12:31 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 467 of 531 (701524)
06-20-2013 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by New Cat's Eye
06-20-2013 12:20 PM


Re: who is a drain?
I do use the quote function.
TSA spent money on things.
That money went into the economy.
All governmental expenditures go into the economy EXCEPT were private industry siphons off profits that are not returned to the economy.
Today, private industry lobbying, corruption and influence plays a big part in diverting public funds into private coffers.
If we wish to improve the US wealth distribution several first steps should be to restrict, control and limit the influence of private industry in lobbying, bribing, entertaining and influencing legislation, governmental expenditures, laws or taxation.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-20-2013 12:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 468 by xongsmith, posted 06-20-2013 2:13 PM jar has not replied
 Message 471 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-20-2013 3:24 PM jar has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2600
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 468 of 531 (701529)
06-20-2013 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 467 by jar
06-20-2013 12:31 PM


Re: who is a drain?
jar writes:
All governmental expenditures go into the economy EXCEPT were private industry siphons off profits that are not returned to the economy.
BINGO!!
- nate

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 12:31 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2183 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 469 of 531 (701532)
06-20-2013 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 468 by xongsmith
06-20-2013 2:13 PM


Re: who is a drain?
And how does one make a profit that does not return to the economy?

This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 470 of 531 (701533)
06-20-2013 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Coyote
06-20-2013 2:37 PM


Re: who is a drain?
Coyotee writes:
And how does one make a profit that does not return to the economy?
Generally, they hide it off-shore in tax havens, pay into off-shore private trusts and use any number of mechanisms to avoid paying what they owe.
But of course, companies must make profits - that's their job and hopefully they'll re-invest in their businesses, employ more and spend more and as a result all benefit
But to succeed, all businesses need a road and rail infrastructure to get their products to market and a secure, lawful, healthy and safe society to sell to.
State and industry are interdependent and it's only the balance of one over the other that we should be arguing about. Business is out for itself and will harm society if unregulated, state has a habbit of growing out of proportion to its usefullness and, at its extremes, is even more harmful.
A plural, democratic society is the best answer we have to getting this balance right.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 471 of 531 (701534)
06-20-2013 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 467 by jar
06-20-2013 12:31 PM


Re: who is a drain?
TSA spent money on things.
That money went into the economy.
How much of the one billion dollars that they spent on "gathering intelligence" do you think went into the economy?
All governmental expenditures go into the economy...
Don't some governmental expenditures go into foreign economies?
...EXCEPT were private industry siphons off profits that are not returned to the economy.
How are profits not returned to the economy? Do you mean like Scrooge McDuck style:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 12:31 PM jar has replied

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 Message 472 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 3:38 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 472 of 531 (701536)
06-20-2013 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 471 by New Cat's Eye
06-20-2013 3:24 PM


Re: who is a drain?
How much of the one billion dollars that they spent on "gathering intelligence" do you think went into the economy?
Most of it. The only part that did not go into the economy would be the part that private enterprise took as profits and has not spent.
Don't some governmental expenditures go into foreign economies?
Some but no where near as much as if we had reasonable and educated politicians. The US is not isolated from the rest of the world.
How are profits not returned to the economy? Do you mean like Scrooge McDuck style:
Exactly. Just like Scrooge McDuck. That is a great example of the inequity of wealth distribution in the US today.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-20-2013 3:24 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2183 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 473 of 531 (701545)
06-20-2013 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 472 by jar
06-20-2013 3:38 PM


Re: who is a drain?
Exactly. Just like Scrooge McDuck. That is a great example of the inequity of wealth distribution in the US today.
Scrooge McDuck is a fictional character that doesn't reflect anything about the real world.
In the real world profits are invested in banks, stocks, bonds, businesses or additional business merchandise, plant expansion, dividends to millions of shareholders, donations to charity, and many other similar places.
Those profits that go into tax shelters are the result of socialists and their nasty tax schemes that are designed to tax the productive and spread the proceeds among the non-productive. The golden goose parable comes to mind.

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 Message 472 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 3:38 PM jar has replied

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 Message 474 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 8:27 PM Coyote has replied
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jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 474 of 531 (701546)
06-20-2013 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 473 by Coyote
06-20-2013 8:16 PM


Re: who is a drain?
Yes, I believe that you actually believe that.
However the reality is quite different. The US is a great example of Scrooge McDucks and may who are in total denial of that fact.
But again, you offer nothing but bumper sticker sloganism as seems to always be the case.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 473 by Coyote, posted 06-20-2013 8:16 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by Coyote, posted 06-20-2013 8:42 PM jar has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2183 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 475 of 531 (701547)
06-20-2013 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 474 by jar
06-20-2013 8:27 PM


Re: who is a drain?
But again, you offer nothing but bumper sticker sloganism as seems to always be the case.
And you offer nothing but redistributionist socialist dogma that has failed worldwide.
What good is it when everybody is poor?
Your socialist system relies on the profit and wealth created by others to exist, so you should be less critical of those who do create the wealth and profit that you (general, not personal) rely on so heavily.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 8:27 PM jar has replied

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foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 660 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 476 of 531 (701548)
06-20-2013 9:06 PM


There are two ways that money goes into the economy. One is through spending on products and services and the other is through investments in those who provide products and services. I venture that most government expenditures go into the economy via the first route. I also venture that business profits go into the economy via the second route. Even those profits that go into offshore tax shelters go into some countries economy via the second route. Everyone here seems to agree that this is a global economy, so helping another countries economy also helps ours.
The opinion of some here seems to be that the best way to help the economy is by pumping money into it via the first route and preferably via the government. If this is true, why isn't giving everyone a guaranteed annual income of 40,000 dollars adjusted annually for inflation the best way to help the economy?

Replies to this message:
 Message 478 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 9:12 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 477 of 531 (701549)
06-20-2013 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 475 by Coyote
06-20-2013 8:42 PM


Re: who is a drain?
Coyote writes:
And you offer nothing but redistributionist socialist dogma that has failed worldwide.
I'm sorry but that is simply a lie, an out and out lie.
Let me repeat, when you say "And you offer nothing but redistributionist socialist dogma that has failed worldwide." you are simply a liar nin at least two ways.
First I have presented options in this very thread that are not in anyway related to redistribution and second the "socialist" policies I have suggested in this thread are simply traditional US Republican conservative position. It is sad and pitiful that the best you can offer as way of response is to lie.
Coyote writes:
What good is it when everybody is poor?
And why do you present a position that no one has even mentioned?
Coyote writes:
Your socialist system relies on the profit and wealth created by others to exist, so you should be less critical of those who do create the wealth and profit that you (general, not personal) rely on so heavily.
Again, yopu are either showing your ignorance or lying yet again. I have offered no socialist system.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix 2nd quote box.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 478 of 531 (701550)
06-20-2013 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 476 by foreveryoung
06-20-2013 9:06 PM


The opinion of some here seems to be that the best way to help the economy is by pumping money into it via the first route and preferably via the government. If this is true, why isn't giving everyone a guaranteed annual income of 40,000 dollars adjusted annually for inflation the best way to help the economy?
Actually that is a position that was suggested by both Ike and Nixon.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 476 by foreveryoung, posted 06-20-2013 9:06 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by foreveryoung, posted 06-20-2013 9:27 PM jar has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 660 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 479 of 531 (701551)
06-20-2013 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 478 by jar
06-20-2013 9:12 PM


Do you agree with it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 9:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 480 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 9:44 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 480 of 531 (701552)
06-20-2013 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by foreveryoung
06-20-2013 9:27 PM


minimum annual income.
I believe that the US would be smart to have a minimum family income although I would not suggest any absolute value; rather I think it should be based on some percentage of the previous years basic cost of living figures and should most likely be regional in nature.
BUT, before we should even think about something like that there are a few things we need to do.
We need to eliminate the influence of business in legislation, elections, rule makings and assure that corporations are not considered individuals or allowed to fund or support candidates at any level. This is probably the single most important and absolutely key step. If we do not do that then we will continue to move towards destruction.
Next we need to decide which area should NEVER be considered as "profit centers". I find the very idea of "for profit" health care, education, utilities as abhorrent, evil. We need to return to the concept of regulated limited monopolies for basic services like utilities.
We need to revise inheritance (not estate) taxes to prevent the continued growth of a "monied" class.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by foreveryoung, posted 06-20-2013 9:27 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 481 by Coyote, posted 06-20-2013 9:55 PM jar has replied
 Message 484 by foreveryoung, posted 06-20-2013 10:10 PM jar has replied

  
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