Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 57 (9174 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: Neptune7
Post Volume: Total: 917,616 Year: 4,873/9,624 Month: 221/427 Week: 31/103 Day: 0/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Wealth Distribution in the USA
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 451 of 531 (701220)
06-14-2013 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 444 by Percy
06-12-2013 10:15 PM


Re: Estimating Economic Benefit
It isn't fair that innocent children catch deadly diseases and die, yet that's reality.
Not all inequalities are equal . Some can be avoided.
If the topic is the fair distribution of wealth then that is a question of morality and morality occurs at the level of the individual. So if you want to live in a fair world then you have to be a fair person regardless of what is legal or accepted behaviour.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by Percy, posted 06-12-2013 10:15 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 452 by Percy, posted 06-14-2013 8:18 AM Dogmafood has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 452 of 531 (701222)
06-14-2013 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 451 by Dogmafood
06-14-2013 6:37 AM


Re: Estimating Economic Benefit
Prototypical writes:
If the topic is the fair distribution of wealth then that is a question of morality...
Well, one could argue all day about subjective issues of fairness and morality, but granting the point for the sake of discussion, where lies the immorality? Does it lie in the hands of business management for merely carrying out their fiduciary responsibilities? The strength of a democratic capitalist society lies in each person freely pursuing their own desires and interests. The result is a wealthy society where most people live better lives than kings a couple hundred years ago.
Or should the immorality be placed in the hands of government for allowing a legal and regulatory framework that causes vast inequities in the distribution of wealth?
Most people prefer to demonize business leaders to a much greater degree than government leaders. After all, people can vote for their government, but they have no control over who runs businesses for which they're not stockholders. But the history of democratic government tells us that skill in garnering votes doesn't confer any great morality. Most who enter the American congress leave it rich if they serve multiple terms, and the money ultimately derives from big business lobbying. Congress may even be a more sure route to wealth than entering into business.
But who is the greater moral transgressor, the businessman whose responsibility is to his stockholders and whose interests he advances by (in essence) bribing government officials, or the elected official whose responsibility is to the people who elected him and who he is screwing over royally.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by Dogmafood, posted 06-14-2013 6:37 AM Dogmafood has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 695 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 453 of 531 (701328)
06-17-2013 9:10 AM



Replies to this message:
 Message 454 by Percy, posted 06-18-2013 8:46 AM ramoss has not replied
 Message 455 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-18-2013 3:37 PM ramoss has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22611
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 454 of 531 (701391)
06-18-2013 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 453 by ramoss
06-17-2013 9:10 AM


The parts relevant to this thread were trickle down economics, taxes on corporations, and taxes on the rich.
I guess the only comment I have is about trickle down economics, which we've discussed before. It always bothers me when someone claims that trickle down doesn't happen. Of course it happens. It's just that it doesn't work as an economic program.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by ramoss, posted 06-17-2013 9:10 AM ramoss has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 455 of 531 (701412)
06-18-2013 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 453 by ramoss
06-17-2013 9:10 AM


What does he say in the video?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by ramoss, posted 06-17-2013 9:10 AM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 456 by ramoss, posted 06-18-2013 4:33 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 695 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 456 of 531 (701417)
06-18-2013 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by New Cat's Eye
06-18-2013 3:37 PM


For one 'If you give tax cuts to the rich, there are more jobs' is a lie is one big one.
And if you 'If you shrink government, you cause jobs'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-18-2013 3:37 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 457 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-19-2013 11:35 AM ramoss has not replied
 Message 458 by Taq, posted 06-19-2013 9:46 PM ramoss has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 457 of 531 (701449)
06-19-2013 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 456 by ramoss
06-18-2013 4:33 PM


For one 'If you give tax cuts to the rich, there are more jobs' is a lie is one big one.
And if you 'If you shrink government, you cause jobs'
Clear as mud!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by ramoss, posted 06-18-2013 4:33 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 458 of 531 (701476)
06-19-2013 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by ramoss
06-18-2013 4:33 PM


For one 'If you give tax cuts to the rich, there are more jobs' is a lie is one big one.
And if you 'If you shrink government, you cause jobs'
I think there is a better way to put this.
People are rich because they keep money as profit instead of spending it on employee wages.
If you cut government spending then government workers will be sent home without a job.
These are two unavoidable facts. How it affects the overall economy is not so clear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by ramoss, posted 06-18-2013 4:33 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 459 by Coyote, posted 06-19-2013 10:55 PM Taq has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2189 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 459 of 531 (701477)
06-19-2013 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by Taq
06-19-2013 9:46 PM


People are rich because they keep money as profit instead of spending it on employee wages.
So you're against profit? Why don't you just leave and find a place where you're going to be happier? Might I suggest North Korea? I suspect the populace there has no benefit from profit at any level.
If you cut government spending then government workers will be sent home without a job.
And might have to find some productive line of work that would actually benefit the economy?
Aren't you aware that for every government employee there are several taxpayers supporting their salaries and benefits--and that by definition government is a drain on the economy rather than a benefit?
These are two unavoidable facts. How it affects the overall economy is not so clear.
I'll make it very clear for you: more productive workers will benefit everyone, while more government parasites are a drain on the economy.
If this were not the case the communist countries (workers' paradises) would have had flourishing economies rather than going bust.
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Taq, posted 06-19-2013 9:46 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-20-2013 12:08 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 461 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 8:27 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 487 by Taq, posted 06-21-2013 1:36 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 488 by bluegenes, posted 06-21-2013 1:42 PM Coyote has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 368 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 460 of 531 (701478)
06-20-2013 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 459 by Coyote
06-19-2013 10:55 PM


Aren't you aware that for every government employee there are several taxpayers supporting their salaries and benefits--and that by definition government is a drain on the economy rather than a benefit?
That is not actually the definition of government.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by Coyote, posted 06-19-2013 10:55 PM Coyote has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34058
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 461 of 531 (701492)
06-20-2013 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 459 by Coyote
06-19-2013 10:55 PM


who is a drain?
Aren't you aware that for every government employee there are several taxpayers supporting their salaries and benefits--and that by definition government is a drain on the economy rather than a benefit?
No, I am not aware of that nor have I ever seen any evidence that that was fact.
I'll make it very clear for you: more productive workers will benefit everyone, while more government parasites are a drain on the economy.
Again, who are the parasites?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by Coyote, posted 06-19-2013 10:55 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 462 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-20-2013 11:00 AM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 462 of 531 (701513)
06-20-2013 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 461 by jar
06-20-2013 8:27 AM


Re: who is a drain?
I'll make it very clear for you: more productive workers will benefit everyone, while more government parasites are a drain on the economy.
Again, who are the parasites?
Everytime I fly i see a bunch of these folks standing around accomplishing nothing:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 461 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 8:27 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 463 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 11:04 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34058
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 463 of 531 (701514)
06-20-2013 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 462 by New Cat's Eye
06-20-2013 11:00 AM


Re: who is a drain?
Well, I would agree that the TSA and War on Drugs are pretty much a stupid idea BUT drain? Do they not spend money in the economy, pay taxes?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-20-2013 11:00 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 464 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-20-2013 11:53 AM jar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 464 of 531 (701518)
06-20-2013 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 463 by jar
06-20-2013 11:04 AM


Re: who is a drain?
Well, I would agree that the TSA and War on Drugs are pretty much a stupid idea BUT drain? Do they not spend money in the economy, pay taxes?
I'm sure there's ways the $7.6 billion budget they got last year could have been better used to improve economy.
They spent a billion dollars gathering intelligence. How does that help the economy?
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 11:04 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 465 by jar, posted 06-20-2013 12:10 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34058
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 465 of 531 (701521)
06-20-2013 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by New Cat's Eye
06-20-2013 11:53 AM


Re: who is a drain?
I'm sure there are alternatives to most everything.
BUT, TSA in particular seems to be just another way for private companies to divert funds from the government to private industry.
If we are going to ever save the US we need to stop the influence of business into government. We need to stop lobbying, make sure business cannot fund political campaigns, do what I posted way back in Message 49.
Fire politicians that oppose increasing taxes in a progressive manor.
Fire politicians that oppose revising the inheritance taxes to avoid the creation of a wealthied class.
Fire politicians that oppose limiting corporate activities in elections, legislation or tax expenditures.
Fire politicians that oppose banning corporate advocacy.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-20-2013 11:53 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 466 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-20-2013 12:20 PM jar has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024