Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 49 (9179 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,227 Year: 5,484/9,624 Month: 509/323 Week: 6/143 Day: 6/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Wealth Distribution in the USA
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 229 of 531 (699837)
05-26-2013 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by ramoss
05-26-2013 1:28 AM


Re: Minimum Wage vs living wage
Does the cosco employee work that much harder than the walmart one?
Does the walmart CEO work that much harder than the Costco one?
Walmart - imho - is much more onerous in their pay scale, as people being subsidized by foodstamps are being subsidized out of taxes, so taxpayers are in effect paying part of walmart salaries to workers, while the CEO echelon sucks money into their greedy pockets.
The minimum wage should be a living wage, period.
I do not buy a thing from walmart. I do shop at Costco.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by ramoss, posted 05-26-2013 1:28 AM ramoss has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 234 of 531 (699852)
05-26-2013 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Percy
05-26-2013 8:37 AM


Re: Businesses Are Not Instruments of Economic Engineering
Look at it this way:
... Businesses are responsible to their shareholders. ...
Some people invest money in a company. They are little different than a loan from a bank. They don't create any product nor do they create any revenue for the company. Many companies operate without shareholders -- they are not necessary for a company to operate.
Some people invest time and energy -- sweat equity -- in a company. The ones investing the time and energy are the ones responsible for making the company profitable. They are the ones that create the product/s and the revenue for the company. Without them there would be no company.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Percy, posted 05-26-2013 8:37 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Tangle, posted 05-26-2013 4:15 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 509 of 531 (712599)
12-05-2013 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by Straggler
12-05-2013 10:50 AM


the 50-50-50 plan again - trickle up!
A big question for me is how do you most effectively help small businesses? Big businesses do not need help (or they would not be in business).
When small businesses become successful and expand they create jobs. Job growth numbers show small businesses create more jobs overall than big businesses.
Small businesses are local so money spent there stays local, boosting the local economy.
Small businesses employ local people, so local unemployment decreases as they grow.
Thus my 50-50-50 plan:
  • the first $50,000 annual income (including dividends and any other sources of money) is tax free,
  • after subtracting $50,000 annual income from total income (from all sources) the rest is taxed at 50%,
  • everybody that files a tax return gets a $50.00 per day economy dividend -- your return on investing in the economy.
This amounts to base income of $18250.00(365x50) per year, and replaces social security, unemployment and welfare, etc. Everybody gets this, and they can select on their tax return whether they want it weekly, monthly or annually (taken off next years taxes). The whole program is run by IRS, so the other programs can be shut down and the people can engage in productive jobs or retire.
People at the bottom of the economic spectrum will be spending 100% of their income, so it returns to the economy virtually instantly, thus boosting the economy.
Small businesses now do not need to provide a living wage, they can provide extra pocket money.
People can afford to not work at shit jobs to live, so businesses that have unattractive work will need to pay to attract workers. They will need to respect workers rather than treat them like slaves.
Money would trickle up to lenders, banks, etc. thus benefiting them.
Simple. Effective. Responsible.
Feed the bottom and the whole pyramid grows.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Straggler, posted 12-05-2013 10:50 AM Straggler has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 513 of 531 (712674)
12-05-2013 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by 1.61803
12-05-2013 12:14 PM


I always thought that if you pay your employees more they will in turn go out and spend more, invest more and increase the economy. But simply paying CEOs and Corporatist more does little to stimulate the economy because those types tend to acumulate weath but not spread it around. I could be wrong though.
That's what Henry Ford believed, and that's what made Detroit the car central for the USA.
The major problem today is wage inequality, and the tax structure should discourage this.
Perhaps corporate tax rates should by (1-[lowest hrly wage/highest hrly wage]) ... pay everyone the same and you pay no taxes ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by 1.61803, posted 12-05-2013 12:14 PM 1.61803 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by dronestar, posted 12-06-2013 1:56 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 527 of 531 (712792)
12-06-2013 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 517 by dronestar
12-06-2013 1:56 PM


We've tried trickle-down -- why not try trickle-up?
Not surprisingly, I haven't seen this story in america's corporate media, what do you think:
I saw that and also that they had a proposal (don't know if it is voted on yet) to guarantee minimum living wage to every citizen.
Both are good ideas, but the second is more likely, imho, to pass.
This is why I advocate the 50-50-50 plan.
Thus my 50-50-50 plan:
  • the first $50,000 annual income (including dividends and any other sources of money) is tax free,
  • after subtracting $50,000 annual income from total income (from all sources) the rest is taxed at 50%,
  • everybody that files a tax return gets a $50.00 per day economy dividend -- your return on investing in the economy.
This amounts to base income of $18250.00(365x50) per year, and replaces social security, unemployment and welfare, etc. Everybody gets this, and they can select on their tax return whether they want it weekly, monthly or annually (taken off next years taxes). The whole program is run by IRS, so the other programs can be shut down and the people can engage in productive jobs or retire.
Tax returns would be simple one page documents anyone could fill out.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by dronestar, posted 12-06-2013 1:56 PM dronestar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by jar, posted 12-06-2013 7:55 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 528 of 531 (712793)
12-06-2013 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 518 by Phat
12-06-2013 2:00 PM


Re: Let’s Cap CEO Pay
Its all rather disgusting, and is a reason that I count on unionism to get a fair wage. The wealthy wont give up anything without pressure.
Relying on unions will not get any universal relief, and all non-union people will vote against it. There needs to be regulation across the board that applies to everyone.
Message 509: Thus my 50-50-50 plan:
  • the first $50,000 annual income (including dividends and any other sources of money) is tax free,
  • after subtracting $50,000 annual income from total income (from all sources) the rest is taxed at 50%,
  • everybody that files a tax return gets a $50.00 per day economy dividend -- your return on investing in the economy.
This amounts to base income of $18250.00(365x50) per year, and replaces social security, unemployment and welfare, etc. Everybody gets this, and they can select on their tax return whether they want it weekly, monthly or annually (taken off next years taxes). The whole program is run by IRS, so the other programs can be shut down and the people can engage in productive jobs or retire.
Rebuild the economy from the bottom and let it trickle up.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Phat, posted 12-06-2013 2:00 PM Phat has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 529 of 531 (712794)
12-06-2013 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 521 by New Cat's Eye
12-06-2013 3:01 PM


fools and fooled fools
Hmm. If religion is what made the man so easy to fool, then how was he so easily fooled into religion?
Don't remember who said this:
... It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled ...
So true.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-06-2013 3:01 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1520 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 531 of 531 (712799)
12-06-2013 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by jar
12-06-2013 7:55 PM


Re: We've tried trickle-down -- why not try trickle-up?
If it is going to work it needs to be tied to some measurement of cost of living.
Agreed. There is some difficulty with c.o.l. being different in different parts of the country (cost of housing in particular) so it may need to be locally adjusted as well as inflation adjusted.
Cost of Living Calculator
What we should really want is living wage (that's what all the latest protests at fast food franchises are about):
Living Wage Definitions
MIT Living Wage Calculator
Living Wage Calculation for Austin city, Travis County, Texas = $9.43 for a single person, $19.56 for an adult with one child.
Living Wage Calculation for Topeka town, LaGrange County, Indiana = $8.65 for a single person, $16.99 for an adult with one child.
$9.00/hr x 8hr/day = $72/day = $18,720 for 52 five day work weeks per year, so this is close to the $50/day every day = $18,250.00 (this would compare to $8.77/hr for 54 five day weeks per year) so this is in the right ball-park and still leaves some room for 'incentivising' people to work to realize better living conditions.
Poverty wages for the same areas are all the same: $5.21 for a single person, $7.00 for adult with one child
It seems rather onerous to me for someone earning below the living wage to be paying taxes, but they get dinged several thousand dollars annually.
This would also need to include universal health care for everyone ... if you have a $50.00 annual copay each for Dr visits, annual medications, etc, then you pay cost for anything below that or $50.00.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by jar, posted 12-06-2013 7:55 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024