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Author Topic:   Is It Bigoted To Have A Supported Opinion?
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 121 of 175 (698857)
05-10-2013 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Phat
05-09-2013 11:58 PM


Re: According To Whose Standard?
1) In regards to the term Christian who gets to categorize them?
What's that saying? Oh yea: "judge not lest ye be judged". Didn't some jesus dude say that? Anyways...My opinion is that you categorize yourself if you so choose. Who are you to categorize others?
Can non Christians categorize Christians?
If you claim to be christian, you're christian. That's about as far as I go when actually categorizing you lot. If you have beliefs contra to what it usually means to be a christian, I may call you a goofy christian or a christian unlike any others I've encountered.
In short, what is the standard that can or should be used from which to properly categorize another group unlike ones own?
The standard of: don't categorize people? You've crossed the border from "categorizing" into discriminating and baseless judging on a number of points in this thread alone.
My argument is that the Word of God is the standard by which to compare.
And that makes you different from every other religious person.....how? Fred and Shirley Phelps say the exact same thing. You're dangerously similar to them. It's your translation of it that is under question here.
in regards to your accusation as to untruth and "miscategorization", I ask you again...according to whose standard?
The standard of knowing that words or phrases are factually incorrect. There need not be some "standard" from which to say: "yep, that is a miscategorization and an untruth". That is unless your deity of choice is a trickster and you admit this.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Phat, posted 05-09-2013 11:58 PM Phat has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(2)
Message 122 of 175 (698861)
05-10-2013 9:55 AM


A three-year-old's mentality . . .
I see no point in continuing this thread.
After 120 posts, Phat has demonstrated he has the mindset EXACTLY equivalent to a three-year-old child who believes in the Easter Bunny, or a religious terrorists who would kill innocent women and children. There is no argument from logic that will penetrate his concrete brain. And there is no plea from morality and ethics that would sway his heart.
IMO, Phat's fragile life would be irreparably crushed if he would even momentarily consider the forum's posts. He has willfully chosen to go to his grave believing he has a PERSONAL relationship with a mythical, invisible being riding around in the clouds. He is not alone. Half(?) the people in america have similar beliefs. Is it any wonder america has so much violence and retardation.
As I mentioned previously, there are COUNTLESS ridiculous pronouncements from god in Deuteronomy and Leviticus he could latch on to. Yet Phat specifically chose the gay-card, PUBLIC intervention in regards to another person's genitals! That would suggest to any psychology-101-student that Phat has inner demons he cannot himself exorcise. At this point, I would also wonder if Phat's upbringing was also toxic.
Phat, get thee to a first-rate therapist, you got a long difficult road in front of you.

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-10-2013 10:01 AM dronestar has not replied
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 05-10-2013 11:49 AM dronestar has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 175 (698863)
05-10-2013 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Phat
05-09-2013 6:45 PM


Re: Communion
Dude, that pic is a load of horseshit. You shouldn't post that again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 05-09-2013 6:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 124 of 175 (698864)
05-10-2013 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by dronestar
05-10-2013 9:55 AM


Re: A three-year-old's mentality . . .
After 120 posts, Phat has demonstrated he has the mindset EXACTLY equivalent to a three-year-old child who believes in the Easter Bunny, or a religious terrorists who would kill innocent women and children.
Oh look, you're posting hyperbolic nonsense again!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by dronestar, posted 05-10-2013 9:55 AM dronestar has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(4)
Message 125 of 175 (698875)
05-10-2013 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Phat
05-09-2013 11:58 PM


Re: According To Whose Standard?
My argument is that the Word of God is the standard by which to compare.
You say that like it somehow makes you not a bigot.
It doesn't.
It's entirely possible for the "Word of God" or your interpretation thereof to be completely bigoted.
Here's the thing, Phat - if you see anything remotely wrong with being homosexual as opposed to heterosexual, you're a bigot. Pure and simple.
Same as if you considered there to be anything remotely wrong with being black as opposed to being white. You'd be a bigot then, too.
If you think your responsibility as a "role model" is to discourage homosexual relationships, you're a bigot.
If you think your responsibility as a "role mode" is to discourage interracial relationships, you're a bigot.
If you think that the "Word of God" compels you to do any of the above...you're still a bigot. None of your hand-waving or navel gazing or rationalizing has made even a little bit of difference.
What makes you a bigot is very simple: you believe that some superficial classes of people are superior to others. You believe that heterosexual relationships are superior to homosexual ones. The distinction for those classes is without any actual basis beyond "my religion tells me so." You cannot point to an actual reason, like "children raised by gays are horribly damaged" or "homosexual relationships are toxic." Instead, what actually happens is that when people act on beliefs like yours, they damage others, by considering them to be "less" on the simple basis of their sexual orientation. You damage their self-esteem. You treat them like an enemy. You tell them that they should feel ashamed of who they are. All for no real reason other than the fact that you think two men having sex is icky.
You're a bigot, Phat. You've failed to justify your bigotry. Utterly. If you don't like being labelled a bigot, you could always try not being a bigot.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Phat, posted 05-09-2013 11:58 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by dronestar, posted 05-10-2013 11:08 AM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-10-2013 11:37 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 126 of 175 (698876)
05-10-2013 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Rahvin
05-10-2013 11:02 AM


Re: According To Whose Standard?
Rahvin writes:
All for no real reason other than the fact that you think two men having sex is icky.
Me thinks Phat protests too loudly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Rahvin, posted 05-10-2013 11:02 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 127 of 175 (698884)
05-10-2013 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Rahvin
05-10-2013 11:02 AM


Re: According To Whose Standard?
Rahvin writes:
It's entirely possible for the "Word of God" or your interpretation thereof to be completely bigoted.
Is it entirely possible for God..if God exists, to Himself be bigoted?
Rahvin writes:
Here's the thing, Phat - if you see anything remotely wrong with being homosexual as opposed to heterosexual, you're a bigot. Pure and simple.
Same as if you considered there to be anything remotely wrong with being black as opposed to being white. You'd be a bigot then, too.
If you think your responsibility as a "role model" is to discourage homosexual relationships, you're a bigot.
If you think your responsibility as a "role mode" is to discourage interracial relationships, you're a bigot.
If you think that the "Word of God" compels you to do any of the above...you're still a bigot. None of your hand-waving or navel gazing or rationalizing has made even a little bit of difference.
Allow me to get personal. What if I told you that you were in sin if you didn't love God more than you loved your significant other? Would I be a bigot by telling you this and if so, why?
Rahvin writes:
What makes you a bigot is very simple: you believe that some superficial classes of people are superior to others.
Not at all. What I believe is that the God I worship is the Creator of all seen and unseen and is superior to all human wisdom,faith, and belief. People are all created equal, though some are born handicapped, poor, or blind...they have equal heart and equal worth. We are all equally sinful as well. The question, I suppose is whether we need God, as I understand Him. I think we do.
Edited by Phat, :

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Rahvin, posted 05-10-2013 11:02 AM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by dronestar, posted 05-10-2013 11:46 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 130 by Panda, posted 05-10-2013 12:06 PM Phat has replied
 Message 135 by ringo, posted 05-10-2013 12:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 128 of 175 (698885)
05-10-2013 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
05-10-2013 11:37 AM


Re: According To Whose Standard?
Phat writes:
What if I told you that you were in sin if you didn't love God more than you loved your significant other?
Why not quote the bible now? . . .
quote:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-10-2013 11:37 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 129 of 175 (698887)
05-10-2013 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by dronestar
05-10-2013 9:55 AM


Re: A three-year-old's mentality . . .
Dronester writes:
After 120 posts, Phat has demonstrated he has the mindset EXACTLY equivalent to a three-year-old child who believes in the Easter Bunny, or a religious terrorists who would kill innocent women and children. There is no argument from logic that will penetrate his concrete brain. And there is no plea from morality and ethics that would sway his heart.
IMO, Phat's fragile life would be irreparably crushed if he would even momentarily consider the forum's posts. He has willfully chosen to go to his grave believing he has a PERSONAL relationship with a mythical, invisible being riding around in the clouds. He is not alone. Half(?) the people in america have similar beliefs. Is it any wonder america has so much violence and retardation.
As I mentioned previously, there are COUNTLESS ridiculous pronouncements from god in Deuteronomy and Leviticus he could latch on to. Yet Phat specifically chose the gay-card, PUBLIC intervention in regards to another person's genitals! That would suggest to any psychology-101-student that Phat has inner demons he cannot himself exorcise. At this point, I would also wonder if Phat's upbringing was also toxic.
Phat, get thee to a first-rate therapist, you got a long difficult road in front of you.
I say this in the same spirit in which you addressed me:
quote:
After 122 posts, Dronester has demonstrated, as he does elsewhere at EvC, that he is an intelligent and educated man of critical thought. There is no argument, however, that can penetrate his heart. He is utterly convinced that God is a mythical creation of the human mind and his ego would be crushed were he to find out otherwise. My hope for him, Theodoric, Hooah, and Mr.Onifre is that they someday experience the Holy Spirit. I sincerely hope that dronester does not go to his grave believing that God is nothing more than a human creation and, further, I pray that God in His mercy gives dronester yet one more opportunity to allow the flow of the Holy Spirit to guide his life rather than human wisdom. I do appreciate him telling me that I need therapy. I will consider listening to an educated person who understands the mind--even if they are not Christian---and of course will also pray for them when I go visit. Thanks, Dronester. Oh, and one more thing....
Dronester, get to a first rate church. You have so much more in life that you are blinded to at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by dronestar, posted 05-10-2013 9:55 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by dronestar, posted 05-10-2013 12:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 130 of 175 (698891)
05-10-2013 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
05-10-2013 11:37 AM


Re: According To Whose Standard?
Phat writes:
People are all created equal. We are, however, equally sinful.
Is there a 'not' missing from that?
i.e. "People are not all created equal."
Because otherwise, it doesn't quite make sense.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-10-2013 11:37 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 131 of 175 (698893)
05-10-2013 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
05-10-2013 11:49 AM


Re: A three-year-old's mentality . . .
Phat writes:
After 122 posts, Dronester has demonstrated, as he does elsewhere at EvC, that he is an intelligent and educated man of critical thought.
Well, how rude, now you're just being nasty.
When I was in Burma, I visited a glass encased temple that was air-conditioned so that the marble Buddha statue inside would be 'comfortable.' The whole building must have cost a mint. The EXTREMELY poor villagers would come and give offerings (money, fruit, flowers). But I thought, If only they would give EACHOTHER their time, money and efforts, their lot in life would significantly improve. Afterall, they been doing this for centuries, it would seem their god would eventually start giving back if their offerings had ANY merit. Yet they are STILL catastrophically poor. It is like people who continue to pray even though studies have shown their is NO benefit.
So this is my takeaway question when I see people toiling in effort for an invisible, non-existent god: Is there so much love and kindness in this world that we can waste it on imaginary beings?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 05-10-2013 11:49 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by 1.61803, posted 05-10-2013 12:22 PM dronestar has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 132 of 175 (698894)
05-10-2013 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by dronestar
05-10-2013 12:16 PM


Re: A three-year-old's mentality . . .
The illusion of piety is reward in itself. Perhaps.
Edited by 1.61803, : added perhaps.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by dronestar, posted 05-10-2013 12:16 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by dronestar, posted 05-10-2013 12:30 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 133 of 175 (698895)
05-10-2013 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Panda
05-10-2013 12:06 PM


Re: According To Whose Standard?
I changed it. I can always edit my posts...they are collectively a work in progress.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Panda, posted 05-10-2013 12:06 PM Panda has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 134 of 175 (698896)
05-10-2013 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by 1.61803
05-10-2013 12:22 PM


Re: A three-year-old's mentality . . .
The illusion of piety is reward in itself. Perhaps.
When children go without shelter or food, is piety really that rewarding? When a child starves to death, it isn't a quick merciful death. To die from malnutrition is a long drawn out agonizing pitiful death.
So, in comparison, how rewarding would you say is that "piety"?
Can I paraphrase?: Is there so much piety in life that we can waste it on imaginerary characters?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by 1.61803, posted 05-10-2013 12:22 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by 1.61803, posted 05-10-2013 12:43 PM dronestar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 135 of 175 (698897)
05-10-2013 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
05-10-2013 11:37 AM


Re: According To Whose Standard?
Phat writes:
Is it entirely possible for God..if God exists, to Himself be bigoted?
According to dictionary.com (watch me argue ad dictionarium), a bigot is:
quote:
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
If your God was a person, He'd certainly pass that test.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-10-2013 11:37 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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